EVEN MORE: March 28 update -- it's temporary (looks like fresh twits rank high on Google search and also get pushed down by newer twits) D.
Twitter: impressed with Twitter -- my prior twit made it right under the link for craigslist official blog (search
for "craigslist violent crime") D
MORE:
Twitter: violent crime -- what is craigslist doing to prevent it? what *should* they be doing given their humongous profits? http://tiny.cc/0qKqw D.
....
previously
more craigslist violent crime -- what is craigslist doing to prevent it? what *should* they be doing given their humongous profits? a lot more then just giving some suggestions... Jim is really stretching it (last paragraph) again: those few suggestions do not amount to "measures," Jim -- serious measures are what you should be having but you have nothing of the kind ... nor do you intent to do anything about it, by all indication... D.
Thursday, March 26, 2009
Thursday, March 19, 2009
Wednesday, March 18, 2009
craigslist "customer service" -- the fundamentals are just not there...
MORE: craigslist "customer service": the fundamentals are just not there... D. http://tiny.cc/GYw21
...
Twitter... @Payo looks like show to me, Paul -- Craig and his tiny "team" can't possibly provide anything resembling adequate customer service...Delia
hoping Paul got it... as for Craig? he's either lobotomized or he *knows* what's going on! -- there is just no way to provide adequate customer service for the number of people using craigslist with the extremely limited resources he is willing to dedicate to it...
and is he calling me a "stalker," again? good :) -- that's when I know I hit a really good one! *lol* (probably this one this morning -- he posted his "feedback needed" -- the blog portion of it -- soon after (where he asked people to ignore "trolls" and "sites desperate for traffic" -- is he talking about Eve's site? what a jerk...) and the I-got-a-stalker twit was posted soon after I gave Paul the hint...
well, guess what... you can't shut people up! (as much as you'd like to...)
Delia
P.S. love Twitter !-- reminds me of an idea I had a long while back: this is the only way you can have a real conversation (if it happens on neutral grounds) D.
...
Twitter... @Payo looks like show to me, Paul -- Craig and his tiny "team" can't possibly provide anything resembling adequate customer service...Delia
hoping Paul got it... as for Craig? he's either lobotomized or he *knows* what's going on! -- there is just no way to provide adequate customer service for the number of people using craigslist with the extremely limited resources he is willing to dedicate to it...
and is he calling me a "stalker," again? good :) -- that's when I know I hit a really good one! *lol* (probably this one this morning -- he posted his "feedback needed" -- the blog portion of it -- soon after (where he asked people to ignore "trolls" and "sites desperate for traffic" -- is he talking about Eve's site? what a jerk...) and the I-got-a-stalker twit was posted soon after I gave Paul the hint...
well, guess what... you can't shut people up! (as much as you'd like to...)
Delia
P.S. love Twitter !-- reminds me of an idea I had a long while back: this is the only way you can have a real conversation (if it happens on neutral grounds) D.
is Craig Newmark / craigslist pimping? The lawsuit's strength and weaknesses
Twitter: is Craig Newmark / craigslist pimping? The lawsuit's strength and weaknesses... (feel free to join the discussion) http://tiny.cc/wMf0R D.
As far as I can tell the biggest strength is showing that regardless of what craigslist claims to be its reason for having "erotic services" the actual effect is very different and the biggest weakness is got to be mistakenly presenting the erotic service section as "forums" instead of advertisement.
Delia
P.S. curious what people think
P.P.S. please email instead of posting comments
As far as I can tell the biggest strength is showing that regardless of what craigslist claims to be its reason for having "erotic services" the actual effect is very different and the biggest weakness is got to be mistakenly presenting the erotic service section as "forums" instead of advertisement.
Delia
P.S. curious what people think
P.P.S. please email instead of posting comments
Saturday, March 14, 2009
dot org my....
Twitter: @peymojo Paul, craigslist is using the dot org denomination abusively, in my opinion, since it ceased to be List Foundation (a non-profit)
on buying the SF Chronicle
EVEN MORE: twitter
Craig Newmark / craigslist and the news -- discussion with Eve Batey of sfappeal.com http://tiny.cc/7arxd (sparked by http://tiny.cc/WY5Dr)
MORE:
I believe it would be for financial gain in the long run, that news could be integrated into craigslist and eventually be monetized. If you take a look at the community heading for craigslist cities there is a subheading for "local news and views" -- this subcategory is a mishmash of things at this point but it certainly has potential for news distribution. Craig's inside information from being involved with things like Daylife could really pay off. D.
Still MORE:
Totally understand! It's a precaution we have to take against trolls, but I completely understand why you might not be comfortable with it.
When you say "I think it's unlikely that Craig/craigslist would buy
any media outlet but if it happened, it would be for very different
reasons." I'm intrigued. What reasons would there be?
Eve Batey
sfappeal.
EVEN MORE: Twitter
the motivation if Craig Newmark/craigslist bought the San Francisco Chronicle? http://tiny.cc/7arxd (sparked by http://tiny.cc/WY5Dr) Delia
MORE:
note for Eve: I didn't realize I have to register to post on your site. I don't like doing that -- sorry! D.
STILL MORE:
re: ""I'll tell you that in this case I'm not in the business of considering motivation. Craig has intentionally positioned himself as the Guy Who Would Save Media, so, motivation aside, that's what poses the possibility that he'd be the buyer. I do not understand why he would not state for the record, now that an actually Save Media opportunity is presenting itself, if he is actually going to go for it.
And, I wouldn't blame him if he didn't! It's an expensive proposition with a lot of risk and little reward. But, like I said in my article,this playing coy thing makes his remarks on wanting journos to demand answers of industry leaders hypocritical."
Sorry about the long delay, Eve!
After having followed this for way too long (I thought I successfully quit a while ago but now I'm back at it), I've seen nothing to suggest Craig has any real interest in "saving" anything... just a lot of hot air... and double talk.
I he/craigslist bought the Chron, it wouldn't be to "help out"... that's why I think motivation is very important when discussing this topic. I think it's unlikely that Craig/craigslist would buy any media outlet but if it happened, it would be for very different reasons.
Delia
EVEN MORE:
love this crossposting idea, let's do it! Thanks for asking, please use my email any way you'd like. See you at the Appeal!
On Mar 14, 2009, at 6:30 PM, dperiod@comcast.net wrote: I have no idea what you said in that comment, Eve (haven't read it)...but I like what you are saying now:). Just to clarify, I don't think *you* are fool of it -- I was implying that Craig/craigslist is... We can certainly talk at sfappel if you'd like to talk! I'll meet you there. I'll post a comment to kick it off...re:
"I'll tell you that in this case I'm not in the business of considering motivation. Craig has intentionally positioned himself as the Guy Who Would Save Media, so, motivation aside, that's what poses the possibility that he'd be the buyer. I do not understand why he would not state for the record, now that an actually Save Media opportunity is presenting itself, if he is actually going to go for it.
And, I wouldn't blame him if he didn't! It's an expensive proposition with a lot of risk and little reward. But, like I said in my article,this playing coy thing makes his remarks on wanting journos to demand answers of industry leaders hypocritical."
Delia
P.S. Is it ok to post this email exchange in the body of the entry on my blog? from then on I'll be cross posting my comments (on your site and on my blog) with links to your responses on your site, ok?
On Sat, 2009-03-14 at 18:09 -0700, Eve Batey wrote:Now I'm trying to remember what I said, because I think it was clever! Maybe something like "come over to the Appeal and let's talk about it in the comments there"? Because I'd love to get the discussion going there on it, we are new and eager for discourse.
Barring that, I'll tell you that in this case I'm not in the business of considering motivation. Craig has intentionally positioned himself as the Guy Who Would Save Media, so, motivation aside, that's what poses the possibility that he'd be the buyer. I do not understand why he would not state for the record, now that an actually Save Media opportunity is presenting itself, if he is actually going to go for it.
And, I wouldn't blame him if he didn't! It's an expensive proposition with a lot of risk and little reward. But, like I said in my article, this playing coy thing makes his remarks on wanting journos to demand answers of industry leaders hypocritical.
But, still, come over to the Appeal and let's talk about it! I wantto know what you have to say! Come tell me I'm full of it.
--Eve
MORE: @sfappeal Eve, I stopped taking comments on that blog; fell free to email (http://tiny.cc/2dukR) if you'd rather not answer here; thanks! D.
...
@sfappeal Eve, what motive would Craig/craigslist have in buying the Chron? "helping out?" that's the real bullshit! http://tiny.cc/375kS D.
Craig Newmark / craigslist and the news -- discussion with Eve Batey of sfappeal.com http://tiny.cc/7arxd (sparked by http://tiny.cc/WY5Dr)
MORE:
I believe it would be for financial gain in the long run, that news could be integrated into craigslist and eventually be monetized. If you take a look at the community heading for craigslist cities there is a subheading for "local news and views" -- this subcategory is a mishmash of things at this point but it certainly has potential for news distribution. Craig's inside information from being involved with things like Daylife could really pay off. D.
Still MORE:
Totally understand! It's a precaution we have to take against trolls, but I completely understand why you might not be comfortable with it.
When you say "I think it's unlikely that Craig/craigslist would buy
any media outlet but if it happened, it would be for very different
reasons." I'm intrigued. What reasons would there be?
Eve Batey
sfappeal.
EVEN MORE: Twitter
the motivation if Craig Newmark/craigslist bought the San Francisco Chronicle? http://tiny.cc/7arxd (sparked by http://tiny.cc/WY5Dr) Delia
MORE:
note for Eve: I didn't realize I have to register to post on your site. I don't like doing that -- sorry! D.
STILL MORE:
re: ""I'll tell you that in this case I'm not in the business of considering motivation. Craig has intentionally positioned himself as the Guy Who Would Save Media, so, motivation aside, that's what poses the possibility that he'd be the buyer. I do not understand why he would not state for the record, now that an actually Save Media opportunity is presenting itself, if he is actually going to go for it.
And, I wouldn't blame him if he didn't! It's an expensive proposition with a lot of risk and little reward. But, like I said in my article,this playing coy thing makes his remarks on wanting journos to demand answers of industry leaders hypocritical."
Sorry about the long delay, Eve!
After having followed this for way too long (I thought I successfully quit a while ago but now I'm back at it), I've seen nothing to suggest Craig has any real interest in "saving" anything... just a lot of hot air... and double talk.
I he/craigslist bought the Chron, it wouldn't be to "help out"... that's why I think motivation is very important when discussing this topic. I think it's unlikely that Craig/craigslist would buy any media outlet but if it happened, it would be for very different reasons.
Delia
EVEN MORE:
love this crossposting idea, let's do it! Thanks for asking, please use my email any way you'd like. See you at the Appeal!
On Mar 14, 2009, at 6:30 PM, dperiod@comcast.net wrote: I have no idea what you said in that comment, Eve (haven't read it)...but I like what you are saying now:). Just to clarify, I don't think *you* are fool of it -- I was implying that Craig/craigslist is... We can certainly talk at sfappel if you'd like to talk! I'll meet you there. I'll post a comment to kick it off...re:
"I'll tell you that in this case I'm not in the business of considering motivation. Craig has intentionally positioned himself as the Guy Who Would Save Media, so, motivation aside, that's what poses the possibility that he'd be the buyer. I do not understand why he would not state for the record, now that an actually Save Media opportunity is presenting itself, if he is actually going to go for it.
And, I wouldn't blame him if he didn't! It's an expensive proposition with a lot of risk and little reward. But, like I said in my article,this playing coy thing makes his remarks on wanting journos to demand answers of industry leaders hypocritical."
Delia
P.S. Is it ok to post this email exchange in the body of the entry on my blog? from then on I'll be cross posting my comments (on your site and on my blog) with links to your responses on your site, ok?
On Sat, 2009-03-14 at 18:09 -0700, Eve Batey wrote:Now I'm trying to remember what I said, because I think it was clever! Maybe something like "come over to the Appeal and let's talk about it in the comments there"? Because I'd love to get the discussion going there on it, we are new and eager for discourse.
Barring that, I'll tell you that in this case I'm not in the business of considering motivation. Craig has intentionally positioned himself as the Guy Who Would Save Media, so, motivation aside, that's what poses the possibility that he'd be the buyer. I do not understand why he would not state for the record, now that an actually Save Media opportunity is presenting itself, if he is actually going to go for it.
And, I wouldn't blame him if he didn't! It's an expensive proposition with a lot of risk and little reward. But, like I said in my article, this playing coy thing makes his remarks on wanting journos to demand answers of industry leaders hypocritical.
But, still, come over to the Appeal and let's talk about it! I wantto know what you have to say! Come tell me I'm full of it.
--Eve
MORE: @sfappeal Eve, I stopped taking comments on that blog; fell free to email (http://tiny.cc/2dukR) if you'd rather not answer here; thanks! D.
...
@sfappeal Eve, what motive would Craig/craigslist have in buying the Chron? "helping out?" that's the real bullshit! http://tiny.cc/375kS D.
Friday, March 13, 2009
(more) mindless PR
MORE: @jake_buehler venom? I didn't write the craig$list article, Jake; what can I say... keep believing the fairy tale if it makes you happy!:).
entire Twitter conversation with Jake -- just click on the "show conversation" button (starting to see the value of Twitter... D.)
EVEN MORE: @jake_buehler just an observer, Jack... here's a good hint if you are serious about this: http://tiny.cc/FQSpd (craig$list) take care! Delia
MORE: @JeffElder that's like thinking Santa Claus is a good guy 'cause kids like him -- it's all fiction and you guys eat it all up... pretty sad
STILL MORE: @jake_buehler well, tell Doug I said he needs to do a lot more thinking re: craigslist...(otherwise, he comes across as... not too bright:)
EVEN MORE: @tsmyther Hi, Smythe! no offense but I'm wondering if you still believe in Santa Claus (the craigslist fairy tale is very similar) Delia
...
MORE: there was a twit at one point where a guy was unabashedly asking Craig is he was interested in doing an interview / PR -- in those words --and, wouldn't you know it, Craig jumped at it... shouldn't these people get paid? (looks like there are plenty of profits to go around) D.
...
Twitter: @jake_buehler did you guys get paid for the PR provided? (craig is all but reading off a script with little interruption) D.
entire Twitter conversation with Jake -- just click on the "show conversation" button (starting to see the value of Twitter... D.)
EVEN MORE: @jake_buehler just an observer, Jack... here's a good hint if you are serious about this: http://tiny.cc/FQSpd (craig$list) take care! Delia
MORE: @JeffElder that's like thinking Santa Claus is a good guy 'cause kids like him -- it's all fiction and you guys eat it all up... pretty sad
STILL MORE: @jake_buehler well, tell Doug I said he needs to do a lot more thinking re: craigslist...(otherwise, he comes across as... not too bright:)
EVEN MORE: @tsmyther Hi, Smythe! no offense but I'm wondering if you still believe in Santa Claus (the craigslist fairy tale is very similar) Delia
...
MORE: there was a twit at one point where a guy was unabashedly asking Craig is he was interested in doing an interview / PR -- in those words --and, wouldn't you know it, Craig jumped at it... shouldn't these people get paid? (looks like there are plenty of profits to go around) D.
...
Twitter: @jake_buehler did you guys get paid for the PR provided? (craig is all but reading off a script with little interruption) D.
Friday, March 6, 2009
(prostitution) is craigslist "knowingly promoting and facilitating prostitution"?
EVEN MORE: best Twitter exchanges from yesterday were from
farhanmemon...
@ricksanchezcnn What your guest is essentially saying is that Craigslist and Craig Newmark are running a fence for prostitution.
craignewmark @ricksanchezcnn Some honesty regarding the Cook County thing: http://tinyurl.com/arvfb4
farhanmemon @craignewmark I think you're on shaky ground on this. You've set up a marketplace for human traffiking. The law may have to be changed.@craignewmark Read your "honest approach" Arg not compelling The facts on the ground: your system is being used for illegal underage sex@craignewmark True or false -- Prostitution is illegal? True or false -- CL has ads for prostitutes (True True).@craignewmark The law will shield digital media for only so long. Congress will get righteous and change the law esp. for human traffiking@craignewmark I have a law degree. Twit too short for analysis. Even if law shields you today may not continue as such if you don't clean up@craignewmark I'm defending VAWA immigrants against deportation. Know anyone in DHS?@craignewmark All I am saying is that CL is a marketplace for human traffiking like it or not. By creating "erotic" category you opened door@craignewmark Don't know anyone in power? You know the daddy mac...Obama.@LawProf You're right which is why CL needs to clean up act by policing erotic category.@craignewmark Your problem is following the advice of cops in good faith in one jurisdiction will not shield you from liability in another.@craignewmark Craig imagine your liability (you personally and CL) if a teenage prostitute gets murdered by a John who found her on CL?@craignewmark PS None of what I am saying should be thought of as legal advice. I'm sure you have plenty of lawyers working overtime.MORE: Twitter:
why do best things happen that odd day when you go to a wedding? (great developments on Twitter re:craigslist yesterday); we'll see if there is some spark left for today D
@ricksanchezcnn congratulation on your talk with Dart! (just saw the transcript) your Twitter reference gave a very different impression...D
STILL MORE: Twitter:
@ricksanchezcnn the question is whether or not craigslist is "knowingly promoting and facilitating prostitution"? http://tinyurl.com/8zdfft
EVEN MORE: Twitter:
is craigslist "knowingly promoting and facilitating prostitution"? http://tinyurl.com/8zdfft
MORE: it's disappointing to see how little critical thinking went into this article but on the positive side it does bring to light some good info (packaged neatly in all of two paragraphs...):
(8th and 9th paragraphs):
"Dart said the agreement between Craigslist and the attorneys general has resulted in *no appreciable reduction of ads for prostitution on the site*. Furthermore, he said, Craigslist does not monitor the "erotic services" section of the site, and when his officers have attempted to contact Craigslist *they have been ignored or not gotten the kind of help they need*.
-- does the existence of the "erotic services" section result in an increased number of incidents of prostitution? I would think so... it certainly appears to provide an efficient and effective way of engaging in prostitution (at least some individuals would not have done it outside of craigslist) so how is this not knowingly promoting and facilitation prostitution?
-- craigslist's (too) long standing lame defense has been that if they got rid of that section, those ads would pop up elsewhere on craigslist... except that it would be much less efficient and effective than providing a centralized place for those ads and would thus result in less increase in prostitution...
-- and that's a red herring anyways because what craigslist provides in those sections is ADS, so they should screen those ads like advertisers are legally required to do... this is easily doable (a program that makes sure certain words are not mentioned in those ads -- nothing too sophisticated -- would accomplish the same function as the screeners employed by paper publications)
but that would take some time and money and craigslist appears to want to hold on to that money instead...
keeping those ads also appears to significantly increase the number of overall hits craigslist gets (and presumably attracts more advertisers to the pay sections)
-- EEF continues to miss the point... (willingly?): they keep talking non-sense about "freedom of speech"! those posts are just...ADS... they are in the advertisement segments of craigslist and as such should abide by legal requirements for ads... the posts in the craigslist FORUMS should definitely have the benefit of free speech (not that they always do, often a snap decision is made to move forum posts to the Isle of Misfits or delete them altogether...)
Delia
farhanmemon...
@ricksanchezcnn What your guest is essentially saying is that Craigslist and Craig Newmark are running a fence for prostitution.
craignewmark @ricksanchezcnn Some honesty regarding the Cook County thing: http://tinyurl.com/arvfb4
farhanmemon @craignewmark I think you're on shaky ground on this. You've set up a marketplace for human traffiking. The law may have to be changed.@craignewmark Read your "honest approach" Arg not compelling The facts on the ground: your system is being used for illegal underage sex@craignewmark True or false -- Prostitution is illegal? True or false -- CL has ads for prostitutes (True True).@craignewmark The law will shield digital media for only so long. Congress will get righteous and change the law esp. for human traffiking@craignewmark I have a law degree. Twit too short for analysis. Even if law shields you today may not continue as such if you don't clean up@craignewmark I'm defending VAWA immigrants against deportation. Know anyone in DHS?@craignewmark All I am saying is that CL is a marketplace for human traffiking like it or not. By creating "erotic" category you opened door@craignewmark Don't know anyone in power? You know the daddy mac...Obama.@LawProf You're right which is why CL needs to clean up act by policing erotic category.@craignewmark Your problem is following the advice of cops in good faith in one jurisdiction will not shield you from liability in another.@craignewmark Craig imagine your liability (you personally and CL) if a teenage prostitute gets murdered by a John who found her on CL?@craignewmark PS None of what I am saying should be thought of as legal advice. I'm sure you have plenty of lawyers working overtime.MORE: Twitter:
why do best things happen that odd day when you go to a wedding? (great developments on Twitter re:craigslist yesterday); we'll see if there is some spark left for today D
@ricksanchezcnn congratulation on your talk with Dart! (just saw the transcript) your Twitter reference gave a very different impression...D
STILL MORE: Twitter:
@ricksanchezcnn the question is whether or not craigslist is "knowingly promoting and facilitating prostitution"? http://tinyurl.com/8zdfft
EVEN MORE: Twitter:
is craigslist "knowingly promoting and facilitating prostitution"? http://tinyurl.com/8zdfft
MORE: it's disappointing to see how little critical thinking went into this article but on the positive side it does bring to light some good info (packaged neatly in all of two paragraphs...):
(8th and 9th paragraphs):
"Dart said the agreement between Craigslist and the attorneys general has resulted in *no appreciable reduction of ads for prostitution on the site*. Furthermore, he said, Craigslist does not monitor the "erotic services" section of the site, and when his officers have attempted to contact Craigslist *they have been ignored or not gotten the kind of help they need*.
Dart is asking a federal judge to order Craigslist to eliminate its "Erotic Services" section, where most prostitution ads are posted. He also is *seeking reimbursement for tax dollars spent* paying the salaries of officers who investigate and arrest those responsible for trafficking women on the Web site."
[my emphasis]
significant and telling misinformation: not mentioning the fact that we really don't know where the fees from the "erotic services" ads are going... (this should have been included in the 7th paragraph... as for presenting craigslist as "profit-adverse" (end of paragraph)... has this guy seen conservative estimates of craigslist's profits? doesn't look like it... D.
...
-- does the existence of the "erotic services" section result in an increased number of incidents of prostitution? I would think so... it certainly appears to provide an efficient and effective way of engaging in prostitution (at least some individuals would not have done it outside of craigslist) so how is this not knowingly promoting and facilitation prostitution?
-- craigslist's (too) long standing lame defense has been that if they got rid of that section, those ads would pop up elsewhere on craigslist... except that it would be much less efficient and effective than providing a centralized place for those ads and would thus result in less increase in prostitution...
-- and that's a red herring anyways because what craigslist provides in those sections is ADS, so they should screen those ads like advertisers are legally required to do... this is easily doable (a program that makes sure certain words are not mentioned in those ads -- nothing too sophisticated -- would accomplish the same function as the screeners employed by paper publications)
but that would take some time and money and craigslist appears to want to hold on to that money instead...
keeping those ads also appears to significantly increase the number of overall hits craigslist gets (and presumably attracts more advertisers to the pay sections)
-- EEF continues to miss the point... (willingly?): they keep talking non-sense about "freedom of speech"! those posts are just...ADS... they are in the advertisement segments of craigslist and as such should abide by legal requirements for ads... the posts in the craigslist FORUMS should definitely have the benefit of free speech (not that they always do, often a snap decision is made to move forum posts to the Isle of Misfits or delete them altogether...)
Delia
Thursday, March 5, 2009
Twitter: let's see if this thing works, again....
@popgunpulp more the norm than the exception, Mitch -- Craig is “hard at work” (doing damage control) D.@popgunpulp favorite Twitter exchange re: craigslist: http://tinyurl.com/8snjd7 and revealing web interaction http://tinyurl.com/db37dj D.
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