alright... I'm back!

here's some commentary D.

(Valleywag) Owen brings me back from the break...

just a quick note: you sound like a smart guy, Owen;)...

P.S. I'll have plenty of commentary on this when I get back for good at the end of my break. D.

(more dust in your eyes) Craig's control over craigslist

Craig:"As a result, I don't have anywhere as much control [because I own less shares]" (16.52mi)

regardless how many shares he owns or doesn't own, he is still the chairman of craigslist (so he does have control)

Delia

P.S. I've been spending way too much time on this lately, I need to go back to spending no more than a couple of minutes a day and before that... I'm going to take a week break... take care! D.

Charlie's interview was a great start...

His was the best interviewer ever... by far! he left the competition in the dust by stopping Craig's tap dance and calling him on things... but there are a couple of things that Craig still managed to pass unchallenged...

Here's the worst of them:

#1 philantropy: given all the talk and all the profits why doesn't Craig/craigslist help out those in need?

Craig: "They don't need our money"(19.49) what??? he looks at the Gates foundation and the like and decides that since those are well founded there is just no need for Craig/craigslist philantropic contribution in that arena?

Craig:"the money is better spent when I talk up OneVoice (...)"(19.57) what money? let's say he just onws 25% of craigslist --> that's still a WHOLE lot of money... giving Jay $10,000 to start his project and founding a restroom in a high school in West Bank are both good things... but they are nowhere where his philanthropy should be given his profits AND his talk...

and let's not forget craigslist itself... would they have NOT started as a non-profit, asked for and accepted peoples' contributions and would they have said nothing about the "philanthropic mind set" and "moral compass"... the normal expectations would have been much lower

OR would craigslist had spent the profits on customer service and improvement and just provided normal salaries like it was supposed to do... there would have been no other "philanthropy" to worry about -- craigslist would have been in fact the community service business operating like a public trust Craig claims it is...

Delia

P.S. But we all know that's not at all the case.... craigslist is NOT a non--profit (hasn't been for a long long time) so let's stop him from continuing to peddle all that bullshit... and insulting everybody's intelligence... Charlie's interview was a great start! D.

Craig fights scams all day?

his scam spotting skills appear to be nonexistent (check out the email he sent to this guy, included in that comment)

Delia

Charlie did better than I thought...:)

he did get some answers! Craig currently does NOT own 75% of craigslist (16.38 min) ; he owns no more than 50% (17.04 min) -- not a surprise... (to me... but it should give David a shock...)

But can Craig be trusted to tell the truth? He conceeds that he has an interest in both the reality and the perception (17.33 min) --> this suggests that, contrary to his normal spiel (he is still for the most part repeating in this interview), he is keenly aware of the situation... he does know what's going on! and he is also well aware what impact the truth/myth have... which means he's apparently easy going, I-don't-know-I-don't-care-thing is not to be taken seriously... This was Charlie's biggest accomplishement with this interview... I think... (making it clear he is not buying the non-sense and pressing until he got some "confessions"...)

Delia

P.S. In a way I'm relieved -- it would have been kind of sad to find out he actually meant all that non-sense and for all this time I've been trying to make sense out of the ramblings of an idiot...

Alright, then! He is NOT an idiot... but is he a crook? quite possibly... Did he already sell out? (related or unrelated to the ebay sell) contrary to telling the craigslisters and the public that he would never do that... and what's with the non-sense self-congratulation on an almost nonexistent customer service? and what's up with the retarded development of the site? the apearent answer is: it all saves money! and this is in his financial interest... -- it smells too much like deceit (#8) and fraud... D.

Craig is getting irritated? (now... don't do that! Charlie Rose...:)

about time... prominent interviewers are finally asking the real questions... and pressing for answers! (even if Charlie didn't get the answers -- Craig has been hiding inconvenient info for about a decade... like how much he's been profiting from what was supposed to be a non-profit... this stuff should have been out it the open all along.... -- firmly asking these questions on PBS is good progress!)

Delia

P.S. there are still plenty of dummies in the audience, though... :)
(not Charlie's fault...) D.

Need help!

MORE: It's kind of sad to think I was the only one paying attention... (and I dread having to listen to that old stuff again -- it was plenty boring the first time around...): how can it be possible that people making a living by writing about craigslist miss crucial things... like David, where does he get off claiming Craig owns 75% of craigslist when the evidence is strongly against it...? And no reaction when people point out the problems with that... that must be nice, keep churning BS and keep getting paid for it (whether people notice or not...) -- I'm thinking less of webpronews as a result.... ("pro"???) D.
.................
anybody remember a podcast/speech/interview where Craig said his shares of crigslist went under 50% when he made Jim CEO? (I hope it's still out there... it hasn't been removed or something...)

Delia

P.S. ohh... and another thing... D.

*paying* customers are also ignored...

they wonder why... (could it be because craigslist only really cares about taking their money?) D.

Has Craig already soldout?

MORE: re: "Craig's sellout": the idea was that the "employee sell off" was a necessary cover up, Craig couldn't have straight out sold his own shares and gotten away with collecting huge financial benefits while in the same time keeping the trust of the users -- the ebay and craigslist special forum seems to be missing those threads...[beginning of the P.S. to that entry]) D.

some people thought so back in August 2004 (when he wasn't exactly forthcoming in terms of his control over and the details of the 25% sell to ebay: ... but in any case, he may well be just a minority shareholder at this point, owning something in the vicinity of what ebay owns (at a minimum, it seems that aside from the 25% he appears to have given to Phillip Knowlton, he gave craigslist shares at least to two more people: Nancy Melone -- the former craigslist CEO-- and Jim Buckmaster -- the current craigslist CEO)

Delia

P.S. even if not directly (althought some people thought that was also the case) Craig appears to have benefited financially from the sell to ebay -- craigslist got huge publicity as a result, that seems to have helped a lot... financially... (in terms of craigslist's profits)

P.P.S. hmm... wondering if Craig's untold "part" in the ebay sale -- at least one of them -- was to stay involved with craigslist (ebay's money could have turned to dust if Craig just quit... or sold.. or whatever: a big part of the craigslist myth appears to be the idea that Craig is out there watching...:could ebay have required that Craig stays on indefinitely as a condition of the 25% sale that benefited all craigslist shareholders, including Craig?) D.

craigslist' customer service is just not *immediate*? (what a joke...)

Gina is right... for the most part, craigslist's customer service is just nonexistent... (most people in need of help are simply ignored... they may get a meaningless response from Craig&Co but that's about it...) D.

Wikipedia page on "craigslist": misleading statment (sounds like PR...)

Rocksanddirt: "As of June 2007, there have been no substantive changes to the usefulness or non-advertising nature of the site (still no banner adds, still only charging for a few services to businesses)."

yeah, right... the locations where craigslist charges a fee have increased dramatically (there have been a series of cities added to the list since 2004...) and jobs is no longer the only category where a fee must be paid to advertise...

Delia

P.S. and of course a dramatic increase in the money that craigslist appears to pocket was a direct result of these changes... and the trend gives no sign of slowing down...

P.P.S. Rocksanddirt's Wikipedia user page sounds suspicious to me... D.

(according to Webpronews) Craig owns 75% of craigslist... *what*???

David: "The only part of Craigslist that isn't under Craig Newmark's ownership belongs to eBay. That 25 percent was picked up by eBay in 2004."

Hi, David! how do you figure that? (re:"The only part of Craigslist that isn't under Craig Newmark's ownership belongs to eBay".) D.

"*knowledge* at Wharton"? [my emphasis]

how embarrassing... they call that knowledge? (not a single real question...) D.

(Valleywag) Owen shows promise...

re: Owen Thomas: "Some joke that the classifieds site run by Craig Newmark is itself almost not-for-profit"
(7th and 8th line)

"Just as Craigslist has sucked out the profit from all kinds of businesses, its foundation is going to suck out the profit made off of nonprofits"
(21, 22nd and 23rd line)

Delia

craigslist up to no good...

there are probably plenty of people who never really bought craigslist's spiel (good news!) ... they just found it difficult to say it given how much nonsense was circulating (and it still is... is just that once some visible people start talking -- such as Andrew Clark -- ... it's easier for others to come out and say what were they really thinking...)

re: Dan Blacharski: "Nonetheless, whenever a company, in this case Craigslist, claims to have any sort of "for the common good" ethos, and further claims not to care about profits, I have to wonder what they're up to. It's like whenever anybody precedes a business deal discussion by telling me what a good Christian they are. Whenever I hear that, it usually means they're up to no good. And so, I've never really bought into the whole Craigslist ideal."

Delia

(craigslist started as a NON-profit) Hurray for Mequoda Daily!

re: Kim Mateus: "The originally-non-profit site was incorporated in 1999"
(they are still blind to plenty of other issues but... hey! at least they got this one right...:)

Delia

P.S. you'd be surprised how many vocal craigslist enthusiasts don't know that... (e.g. : J.D.: "I don't recall whether Craigslist was originally a nonprofit -- i didn't think they were"; time stamp: Mar 13, 2007 4:33:08 PM)

Yes, Nick... Craig's modesty is fake...

just not in the way you suggest...

Delia

P.S. things like bringing to light the truth about craigslist/Craig could be one good way for that Valleywag of yours to gain some real respectability... D.

Craig is no entrepreneur ... right? (no business plan etc.)

MORE
.........
any idea what was the cnewmark.com address (which was the craigslist address for 1996 - 1997) registered as?

"Newmark Enterprises" ...

Delia

P.S. looks like Craig had entrepreneurial ambitions from the very beginning... (re: "Online Since: 24-Oct-1995" under "Site Stats")

craigslist acting like a walled garden...

Craig Donato (Oodle), answering Donna Bogatin's question:" Craigslist a walled garden? Yes, I guess you could say they are acting like one. They are putting up a wall between the listings that consumers publish in their marketplace and those consumers that may want to use a search engine or other tool to help them shop with online classifieds"

Delia

P.S. great info again! (I just wish Donna could overcome craigslist's PR...and she just might:) -- she keeps getting pretty good info... you'd think at some point she would just let go of all that non-sense...) D.

Howard:"Newmark and Buckmaster telling users what they want..."

yep! I agree with Howard on this... I just think he's mistaken on the "socialist classified utopia" thing -- as I was saying earlier on, we'll see what happens...

Delia

P.S. oh... and I think Lucas is right on the profit seeking thing...

Donna keeps embarassing herself...

... just can't stop eating up their goofy PR... (as I was saying, once you've bought the craigslist spiel... it's hard to think straight...) D.

wylbur:" I got stalked through Craigslist. Craig was no help"...

well, MUCH worse than that: "When I wrote to him and pointed out how much more helpful MSN was being, he told me I was a liar. When my fiancee wrote to him to ask him to help stop the stalking posts, he wrote to her and told her that I had control issues and she should leave me."

Delia

P.S. again, anybody else would have probably gotten fired for providing such "customer service"...

P.P.S. wylbur: "The stalking posts were fake posts containing my name and e-mail address in the post body and implied I was organizing a flash mob."

interesting character: 1stskeptic

1stskeptic :not a bad thread... some of his later posts were yanked... (he was going to do an article and include this experience with craigslist and inviting users to email him in connection with this).

Delia

P.S. I'm getting some odd phone calls... coming from an 800 number (G. called to see what the heck it was all about just to have someone hang up on him when he said he just needed to know what this number was... -- I hope it has nothing to do with this blog, a while ago I had to get rid of a Trojan horse on my computer...) D.

Craig starts responding to comments on his blog...

... why now? he "just figured out" his typekey account... (or so his story goes... -- a "hard-core programmer" who takes months to figure out something as basic as an account? ) D.