I'm just going to address some issue that I see relevant at the moment, in no particular order (things I've recently seen people argue incorrectly)
1) craigslist (and similar companies) is like the phone company <--> the internet provider craigslist uses is like the phone company, but craigslist itself is like a company that would solicit ads to be recorded through the phone and then allow the public to call in and access those ads; as far as I understand it, such a company would be legally liable if it promoted crime
2).ads are moving to other sites so we are no better off by shutting down craigslist erotic/adult section <--> what made craigslist such a big problem in the US (and still does internationally) was its efficiency, moving those ads to less efficient places would normally result in less harm; however, if ONE company would manage to recapture virtually all the "formally-craigslist erotic/adult ads", that would be a real concern and should be shut down ASAP
3). child trafficking is just moving from the streets to the internet <--> I really don't think that's the ONLY thing that's going on here, I believe it is to be expected that MORE (perhaps MUCH more) child trafficking actually results when such an efficient market as craigslist exists; I
would also expect copycat child trafficking to result when potential criminals realize that although a small percentage of traffickers are apprehended, the vast majority of them are NOT!
4). we are better off having them post on the web so that the police can just check the ads and find the criminals <--> given the very limited police resources available and the fact that it is considerably MORE expensive --time-wise and resource-wise-- to bring criminals to justice this way (see explanation in policeman's lawsuit against craigslist) this would only make sense if local police would be allowed to set the number of ads that appear on the site to a number they can manage; opening up the floodgates and expecting the police to do anything beyond catch a few cases
is well-meaning but ignorant at best...
5). it is a free speech issue<--> *forum* posts are a free speech issue, NOT ad posts (the function of an ad -- ANY ad -- is commerce, the function of a forum post is speech; an ad posted in the forums would, of course, still be an ad and should abide by legal regulation of ads
alright, now about the INTERNATIONAL issue: as far as I can see, there is no reason to conclude the moral issue is different for erotic sections provided for countries other than the U.S.; the legal issues are bound to differ but hopefully craigslist will take the moral high ground and not even bother with that
the main problem I see is that craigslist might believe -- rightly or wrongly -- (there has been some evidence to support this) that it was the allowing (or actually cultivating?) of the "sex sections" of craigslist that grew the site beyond anybody's expectation in the U.S.
and it will do the same abroad, given time...
so from a strictly "business" POV it might appear that pulling "the sex sections" at this point would prevent the international craigslist site to reach its potential in term of overall ads, hits and eventually profit
so the challenge is to convince craigslist that it should put moral consideration before financial ones, that it shouldn't WANT success abroad if it would take "helping out" child traffickers...
Delia
P.S. I would certainly like to believe that, in spite of Stephen's evidence, craigslist grew as a result of building a useful community and NOT as a result of all that smut.. and that if that's what it took to grow the site abroad, Craig Newmark and Jim Buckmaster would pass... D.
Tuesday, September 14, 2010
100 Experts in Letter to Craigslist: Complete the Job, Now
MORE (craigslist current issue)
sorry... took me longer than I thought, again...
as already said, I hope the group succeeds and am glad to post the press release on my blog; will also post my take on what I see as the current issues, in a separate entry...D.
MEDIA RELEASE
For Immediate Release
Contact:
Andrea Austin
202-425-2307
aaustin@polarisproject.org
Craigslist Must Complete the Job
In Advance of Congressional Hearing Where Craigslist Will Testify,
100 Experts Send Letter to Craigslist Insisting It Close Erotic Sections Worldwide
WASHINGTON, September 14, 2010—On the eve of a Congressional hearing on the sex trafficking of children, 100 leading anti-trafficking experts and organizations sent a letter to Craigslist founder Craig Newmark and CEO Jim Buckmaster calling for the immediate, permanent and complete removal of all Craigslist Adult and Erotic Services sections, worldwide. While these sections were closed in the United States, they remain open in more than 250 cities around the world.
Tomorrow, September 15, 2010, the House of Representatives’ Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security will hear testimony from law enforcement, advocacy groups, and Members of Congress who will speak on child sex trafficking in general and Craigslist’s continuing role as a platform that enables it. William Powell, Director of Customer Service and Law Enforcement Relations for Craigslist, and Elizabeth McDougall, Craigslist’s legal counsel, are scheduled to testify at the hearing.
Here are some highlights from the letter:
We thank you for voluntarily closing the Adult Services section of Craigslist in the United States. While this is a positive step, Craigslist is a global company, and it has a global responsibility. More than 250 Craigslist sites exist around the world that still feature “Erotic” sections where trafficked children and women are being sold for sex.
That you have not made the same improvements globally across your site reveals a disingenuous and inconsistent response on your part. Moreover, the few helpful actions you have taken do not measure up to the amount of daily harm being facilitated by Craigslist through the thousands of Erotic Services ads around the world each day.
The anti-trafficking field is standing with solidarity and unity, and collectively asking you to take down all the Adult and Erotic sections worldwide, completely and permanently.
The letter comes as international law enforcement officials have begun calling on Craigslist to follow through on its commitment to end the sexual trafficking of children and women. Last week, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police called on Craigslist to close the section in Canada: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100907/rcmp-pushes-craigslist-100907/.
The full text of the letter and the list of signatories are below.
September 14, 2010
Sent via facsimile
Jim Buckmaster, CEO
Craig Newmark, Founder
Craigslist, Inc.
1381 9th Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94122
Dear Craig Newmark & Jim Buckmaster,
The experts in the anti-trafficking field who have signed this letter stand together asking you to shut down all the Adult and Erotic Services sections of your website around the world.
We all know that plenty of activity has preceded this letter. There have been meetings, news articles, research studies, protests, letters from survivors, blogs, boycotts, earnings estimates, lawsuits, subpoenas, and plenty of other actions. The voices of survivors, advocates, service providers, local law enforcement, members of Congress, and State Attorneys General have all implored you to do more to fight the sex trafficking of women and girls that occurs on your site.
We thank you for voluntarily closing the Adult Services section of Craigslist in the United States. While this is a positive step, Craigslist is a global company, and it has a global responsibility. More than 250 Craigslist sites exist around the world that still feature “Erotic” sections where trafficked children and women are being sold for sex through your website.
Of particular concern is your repeated statement that anti-trafficking “experts” are supportive of your approach. For example, in one of Jim Buckmaster’s online responses on the Huffington Post, he states, “To the contrary, we are convinced Craigslist is a vital part of the solution to this age-old scourge. We've been told as much by experts on the front lines of this fight…”
There are some who may want you to keep the Erotic Services sections going outside the United States for various reasons. Sex traffickers surely want you to keep the sections going because it helps them make high profits by advertising women and children to large audiences of paying customers. “Johns” who pay for commercial sex want you to keep the section because your site makes it easy and less risky for them to buy women and girls simply by surfing the Internet and perusing the photos on various ads. There may even be some law enforcement officials who see some value in placing decoy ads on your site, or using Craigslist ads as evidence in an investigation. However, we highly doubt that on balance, law enforcement would condone a venue that is a platform for the sex trafficking of women and children. The recent letter signed by 17 State Attorneys General strongly suggests that many law enforcement officials believe the best solution is to close the section, as you have done in the United States.
The signers of this letter are the experts on the issue of human trafficking. Many of us work on the front lines, directly with victims on a daily basis. Some of us are survivors of human trafficking.
With this letter, we are telling you that on the whole, Craigslist’s Adult and Erotic Services sections continue to be more part of the problem than part of the solution.
On the day that Craigslist shut down its Adult Services section in the United States, were the pimps and johns who depend on the site to advance the sex trade happy or upset? The answer to this question should help guide your path forward as you address the remaining “Erotic” sections around the world.
We acknowledge that there are some things that Craigslist has done that are part of the solution. Offering to meet with law enforcement and non-profits is a good thing. The decision to start screening the Adults Services ads was a step forward. Eliminating the blatant nudity that persisted in past years in the United States’ Erotic section was also a step forward. Posting national hotlines, and cooperating with law enforcement when cases are found is useful and laudable. As stated above, voluntarily shutting down the Adult Services section in the United States is also a step in the right direction. Despite such steps forward, these efforts are not enough.
We are deeply concerned that you have not yet taken down the Erotic Services sections across the globe. We are also concerned that it seems that you are not applying the screening techniques that were used in the United States to all the other Erotic Services sections worldwide. In changing the name of the Adult Services section from "Erotic" to "Adult" in the United States, why did you not implement this change globally across your entire site? Furthermore, for the “Adult Services” pages in the United States, there was a “Warning & Disclaimer” page that discusses human trafficking and sexual exploitation. This disclaimer page is also present for the “Erotic” sections in Canada. Yet, as of the date of this letter, there is no “Warning & Disclaimer” page for the other international “Erotic” pages. Nudity is also still present in the photos associated with some “Erotic” ads in the international pages. The reality that you have not made the same improvements globally across your site reveals a disingenuous and inconsistent response on your part. Moreover, the few helpful actions you have taken do not measure up to the amount of daily harm being facilitated by Craigslist through the thousands of Erotic Services ads around the world each day.
In a recent letter, Jim Buckmaster stated that human trafficking ads are “quite rare” on Craigslist. Based on our experience and collective knowledge, we know that the presence of human traffickers on your site is more frequent than you realize. Traffickers have figured out ways to post pictures of clothed women and children that can get past your screeners. The anti-trafficking field has yet to be presented with a meaningful solution of how you intend to guarantee that no children are being sexually exploited on your site. As a result, we ask that you take down the Adult or Erotic sections, wherever they appear on Craigslist.
Another important reality for you to realize is that law enforcement does not currently have the resources to review and conduct an investigation of every single Adult or Erotic Services ad on your site. The sheer volume of ads outpaces law enforcement's ability to respond to each one. Consequently, maintaining the Erotic Services sections in other countries enables the majority of Erotic ads to thrive without a law enforcement deterrent. Cooperating with law enforcement when a rare case is brought is a short-term solution, not reflective of an overall systemic analysis of the crime problem that you are enabling.
You have asserted that removing the Adult or Erotic Services sections will not entirely eliminate the presence of sex ads on your site. This may be true, but eliminating the centralized thoroughfares of each designated "Erotic Services" section seriously disrupts pimps and johns who buy and sell women and children on Craigslist. Closing this section of Craigslist across the globe will send a clear signal to sexual predators that you will not stand for them using the site to sexually exploit children and women.
You argue that there are other online sites that advertise sex ads. Yes, the signers of this letter are aware of other sites with adult ads, and we are working to address those sites as well. But frankly, the user volume and name recognition of those sites pales in comparison to yours. They are not a household name like Craigslist.
We collectively feel that if you are seriously committed to ending the site’s use as a platform for sex trafficking of women and children, you will apply the same approach you recently took in the United States and immediately close the remaining Erotic sections around the world.
If you continue to keep the Erotic sections outside of the United States, we ask that you at least be honest and more specific about the reasons why you are keeping them. After receiving this letter, please do not claim that it is because anti-trafficking “experts” agree with you and wholly support your approach.
In closing, we note that in one of Jim Buckmaster’s recent letters, he asked the question: “Would it not be a step backward to confine adult ads to venues that don't cooperate with law enforcement, that don't care what advocacy groups and nonprofits have to say?”
This statement seems to indicate that Craigslist does care what advocacy groups and nonprofits have to say, more than other venues. If this is true, then you must care about this letter. Please hear what we have to say, read the signers of this letter, and recognize that the anti-trafficking field is standing with solidarity and unity, and collectively asking you to take down all the Adult and Erotic sections worldwide, completely and permanently.
SIGNED:
Bradley Myles
Executive Director & CEO
Polaris Project
Malika Saada Saar
Executive Director & Founder
The Rebecca Project for Human Rights
Eliza Reock
Executive Director
Harold & Kayrita Anderson Family Foundation
Carol Smolenski
Executive Director & Co-Founder
ECPAT-USA
Linda Smith (U.S. Congress 1994-98)
Founder & President
Shared Hope International
Kaffie McCullough
Campaign Director
A Future. Not A Past.
Jennifer & Peter Buffett
Co-Chairs
NoVo Foundation
Lisa L. Thompson
Liaison for the Abolition of Sexual Trafficking
The Salvation Army – National Headquarters, USA
Suzanne Koepplinger
Executive Director
Minnesota Indian Women’s Resource Center (MIWRC)
Lee Rope-Batker
President & Chief Executive Officer
Women’s Foundation of Minnesota
Vednita Carter
Executive Director & Founder
Breaking Free
Andrea Powell
Executive Director & Co-Founder
FAIR Fund
Norma Ramos, Esq.
Executive Director
Coalition Against Trafficking in Women (CATW)
Kevin Bales
President & Co-founder
Free the Slaves
Rachel Lloyd
Founder & Executive Director
Girls Educational & Mentoring Services (GEMS)
Laura J. Lederer
President
Global Centurion
William Livermore
Executive Director
Somaly Mam Foundation
Maria A. Trujillo
Executive Director
Houston Rescue & Restore Coalition
Sonia Ossorio
Executive Director
National Organization for Women, New York City Chapter (NOW-NYC)
Amb. Mark P. Lagon
International Relations Chair
Georgetown University MSFS Program
Tina Frundt
Executive Director & Founder
Courtney’s House
Michele Garnett McKenzie
Director of Advocacy
The Advocates for Human Rights
Rachel Durchslag
Executive Director
Chicago Alliance Against Sexual Exploitation (CAASE)
Marisa Ugarte
Executive Director
Bilateral Safety Corridor Coalition (BSCC)
Lisa Goldblatt Grace
Program Director
My Life, My Choice
Frank Massolini
Director
PROMISE Program
The Salvation Army
Laura Penny
Executive Director
Women’s Foundation of Southern Arizona
Frank N. Barnaba
Founder & President
The Barnaba Institute
Debi M. Harris
Chief Executive Officer
Women’s Fund of Miami-Dade
Carol B. Penick
Executive Director
Women’s Fund of Mississippi
Dorchen A. Leidholdt
Director, Center for Battered Women’s Legal Services
Sanctuary for Families
Elaine Maly
Executive Director
Women’s Fund of Greater Milwaukee
Central Ohio Rescue & Restore Coalition
Cassondra Johnson Blackbird
Executive Director
Sexual Assault Program of Beltrami, Cass & Hubbard Counties
Chris Newlin
Executive Director
National Children’s Advocacy Center
Heather Arnet
Chief Executive Officer
Women & Girls Foundation of Southwest Pennsylvania
Donna M. Hughes
Professor & Carlson Endowed Chair
Women’s Studies Program
University of Rhode Island
Sharon Simpson-Joseph
Executive Director
Juvenile Justice Fund
Marissa Castellanos
Human Trafficking Project Manager
Catholic Charities of Louisville
Michelle Miller
Executive Director
Resist Exploitation, Embrace Dignity (REED)
Ronna L. Bright
Project Coordinator
Central Valley Against Human Trafficking & Central Valley Freedom Coalition
Tania DoCarmo
Director & Vice President
Chab Dai USA
Helen Sworn
Director & Founder
Chab Dai Coalition
Kristy Childs
Executive Director & Founder
Veronica’s Voice
Mark & Keisha Hoerner
Ethical Living, Inc.
Sara K. Gould
President & CEO
Ms. Foundation for Women
Diana Mao
President
NOMI Network
Melanie Shapiro
Co-Founder
Citizens Against Trafficking
Mary Frances Bowley
President
Wellspring Living, Inc.
Jennifer Mitchell
Assistant Director PROMISE Program
The Salvation Army
Anne Lee
President & CEO
Darkness to Light
Daria Mueller
Policy Specialist
Prostitution Alternatives Round Table (PART) of the Chicago Coalition for the Homeless
Glenda L. McClendon
Office Manager
PACE Center for Girls, Inc.
Barbara Mosacchio
Chief Executive Officer
Atlanta Women’s Foundation
Gordon Heller
Chair, Steering Committee
Dayton Southeast Weed & Seed Project
Dr. Daniel Bercu
President
Doctors at War on Trafficking in Persons
Colette Bercu
Director
Free for Life International
Carol Arthur
Executive Director
Domestic Abuse Project
Marcia Coné
Executive Director
Women’s Fund of Rhode Island
Kara Fagan
Director
The Women’s Fund of Great Chattanooga
Nicola Goren
President
Washington Area Women’s Foundation
Charlotte Boatwright
President
Chattanooga Domestic Violence Coalition
Emily Fitchpatrick
Founder & President
On Eagles Wings Ministries & The Hope House
Pam Strickland
Founder
Eastern North Carolina Stop Human Trafficking Now
Victor Vieth
Director
National Child Protection Training Center (NCPTC)
Madeliene H. Dobbins
Director & Chief Administrative Officer
Delta Research & Educational Foundation
Deborah Sigmund
Founder & Director
Innocents at Risk
Benjamin Nolot
Founder
Exodus Cry
Sidney Ford
Director & Founder
You Are Never Alone (YANA)
Jeff Bauer
Director Public Policy & Civic Engagement
The Family Partnership
Anna Rodriguez
Executive Director & Founder
Florida Coalition Against Human Trafficking
Melissa Gifford
Executive Director & DVTF Team Coordinator
Four Points, Inc.
Kathryn Xian
Non-Executive Director & Founder
Girl Fest Hawaii
Stephanie Davis
Executive Director
Georgia Women for Change, Inc.
Stacia Freeman
Executive Director
The Home Foundation
Erik Voss
Executive Director
The International Center of Atlanta
Sandra J. Robinson
Program Coordinator
Western Kentucky Refugee Mutual Assistance
The International Center of Bowling & Owensboro
Danelle Ragoonanan-Storph
Director
Project Rescue & Assist New Americans
International Institute of Connecticut, Inc.
Kathy Maskell
US Prevention Advisor
Love146
End Internet Trafficking Coalition
Marie Morin
Eastern Regional Director
Long Island Task Force
Love146
The Lucas County Human Trafficking Coalition
Donna Dunn
Executive Director
Minnesota Coalition Against Sexual Assault (MNCASA)
Cyndi Cook
Executive Director
Minnesota Coalition for Battered Women
Claudia Barlow
Chair of the Board
Miramed
Jeannette Pai-Espinosa
President
The National Crittenton Foundation
Veronica Lamb
Outreach Director
Pacific Alliance to Stop Slavery
Sandra L. Hollett
Chief Executive Officer
Partnership for Families, Children & Adults
Dianne Post
Attorney
Phoenix Women Take Back the Night
Kristyn Komarnicki
Editor
PRISM Magazine
Evangelicals for Social Action
Candice Harshner
Executive Director
Program for Aid to Victims of Sexual Assault (PAVSA)
Donna Sabella
Director
Project Phoenix
Trisha Smouse
Anti-Human Trafficking Program Manager
The Salvation Army of Central Ohio
Amy L. Hartman
Diaconal Minister & National Director
Cherish Our Children
Kathie Logan
Program Manager
Sexual Assault Center of NWGA
8th Day Center for Justice
Cordelia Anderson
Co-Director
Sexual Health & Responsibility Program (SHARP)
Renee Morrison
Chairman & Founder
In My Backyard Foundation
Gregory Marx
Director
In My Backyard Foundation
Adeyemi Oshodi
Director of Anti-Trafficking Programs
World Hope International (WHI)
Ann Buwulda
President
Jubilee Campaign USA
Serena Connelly
Co-Founder
Human Rights Initiative of North Texas
Holy Union Sisters
Central Dallas Ministries
sorry... took me longer than I thought, again...
as already said, I hope the group succeeds and am glad to post the press release on my blog; will also post my take on what I see as the current issues, in a separate entry...D.
MEDIA RELEASE
For Immediate Release
Contact:
Andrea Austin
202-425-2307
aaustin@polarisproject.org
Craigslist Must Complete the Job
In Advance of Congressional Hearing Where Craigslist Will Testify,
100 Experts Send Letter to Craigslist Insisting It Close Erotic Sections Worldwide
WASHINGTON, September 14, 2010—On the eve of a Congressional hearing on the sex trafficking of children, 100 leading anti-trafficking experts and organizations sent a letter to Craigslist founder Craig Newmark and CEO Jim Buckmaster calling for the immediate, permanent and complete removal of all Craigslist Adult and Erotic Services sections, worldwide. While these sections were closed in the United States, they remain open in more than 250 cities around the world.
Tomorrow, September 15, 2010, the House of Representatives’ Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security will hear testimony from law enforcement, advocacy groups, and Members of Congress who will speak on child sex trafficking in general and Craigslist’s continuing role as a platform that enables it. William Powell, Director of Customer Service and Law Enforcement Relations for Craigslist, and Elizabeth McDougall, Craigslist’s legal counsel, are scheduled to testify at the hearing.
Here are some highlights from the letter:
We thank you for voluntarily closing the Adult Services section of Craigslist in the United States. While this is a positive step, Craigslist is a global company, and it has a global responsibility. More than 250 Craigslist sites exist around the world that still feature “Erotic” sections where trafficked children and women are being sold for sex.
That you have not made the same improvements globally across your site reveals a disingenuous and inconsistent response on your part. Moreover, the few helpful actions you have taken do not measure up to the amount of daily harm being facilitated by Craigslist through the thousands of Erotic Services ads around the world each day.
The anti-trafficking field is standing with solidarity and unity, and collectively asking you to take down all the Adult and Erotic sections worldwide, completely and permanently.
The letter comes as international law enforcement officials have begun calling on Craigslist to follow through on its commitment to end the sexual trafficking of children and women. Last week, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police called on Craigslist to close the section in Canada: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100907/rcmp-pushes-craigslist-100907/.
The full text of the letter and the list of signatories are below.
September 14, 2010
Sent via facsimile
Jim Buckmaster, CEO
Craig Newmark, Founder
Craigslist, Inc.
1381 9th Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94122
Dear Craig Newmark & Jim Buckmaster,
The experts in the anti-trafficking field who have signed this letter stand together asking you to shut down all the Adult and Erotic Services sections of your website around the world.
We all know that plenty of activity has preceded this letter. There have been meetings, news articles, research studies, protests, letters from survivors, blogs, boycotts, earnings estimates, lawsuits, subpoenas, and plenty of other actions. The voices of survivors, advocates, service providers, local law enforcement, members of Congress, and State Attorneys General have all implored you to do more to fight the sex trafficking of women and girls that occurs on your site.
We thank you for voluntarily closing the Adult Services section of Craigslist in the United States. While this is a positive step, Craigslist is a global company, and it has a global responsibility. More than 250 Craigslist sites exist around the world that still feature “Erotic” sections where trafficked children and women are being sold for sex through your website.
Of particular concern is your repeated statement that anti-trafficking “experts” are supportive of your approach. For example, in one of Jim Buckmaster’s online responses on the Huffington Post, he states, “To the contrary, we are convinced Craigslist is a vital part of the solution to this age-old scourge. We've been told as much by experts on the front lines of this fight…”
There are some who may want you to keep the Erotic Services sections going outside the United States for various reasons. Sex traffickers surely want you to keep the sections going because it helps them make high profits by advertising women and children to large audiences of paying customers. “Johns” who pay for commercial sex want you to keep the section because your site makes it easy and less risky for them to buy women and girls simply by surfing the Internet and perusing the photos on various ads. There may even be some law enforcement officials who see some value in placing decoy ads on your site, or using Craigslist ads as evidence in an investigation. However, we highly doubt that on balance, law enforcement would condone a venue that is a platform for the sex trafficking of women and children. The recent letter signed by 17 State Attorneys General strongly suggests that many law enforcement officials believe the best solution is to close the section, as you have done in the United States.
The signers of this letter are the experts on the issue of human trafficking. Many of us work on the front lines, directly with victims on a daily basis. Some of us are survivors of human trafficking.
With this letter, we are telling you that on the whole, Craigslist’s Adult and Erotic Services sections continue to be more part of the problem than part of the solution.
On the day that Craigslist shut down its Adult Services section in the United States, were the pimps and johns who depend on the site to advance the sex trade happy or upset? The answer to this question should help guide your path forward as you address the remaining “Erotic” sections around the world.
We acknowledge that there are some things that Craigslist has done that are part of the solution. Offering to meet with law enforcement and non-profits is a good thing. The decision to start screening the Adults Services ads was a step forward. Eliminating the blatant nudity that persisted in past years in the United States’ Erotic section was also a step forward. Posting national hotlines, and cooperating with law enforcement when cases are found is useful and laudable. As stated above, voluntarily shutting down the Adult Services section in the United States is also a step in the right direction. Despite such steps forward, these efforts are not enough.
We are deeply concerned that you have not yet taken down the Erotic Services sections across the globe. We are also concerned that it seems that you are not applying the screening techniques that were used in the United States to all the other Erotic Services sections worldwide. In changing the name of the Adult Services section from "Erotic" to "Adult" in the United States, why did you not implement this change globally across your entire site? Furthermore, for the “Adult Services” pages in the United States, there was a “Warning & Disclaimer” page that discusses human trafficking and sexual exploitation. This disclaimer page is also present for the “Erotic” sections in Canada. Yet, as of the date of this letter, there is no “Warning & Disclaimer” page for the other international “Erotic” pages. Nudity is also still present in the photos associated with some “Erotic” ads in the international pages. The reality that you have not made the same improvements globally across your site reveals a disingenuous and inconsistent response on your part. Moreover, the few helpful actions you have taken do not measure up to the amount of daily harm being facilitated by Craigslist through the thousands of Erotic Services ads around the world each day.
In a recent letter, Jim Buckmaster stated that human trafficking ads are “quite rare” on Craigslist. Based on our experience and collective knowledge, we know that the presence of human traffickers on your site is more frequent than you realize. Traffickers have figured out ways to post pictures of clothed women and children that can get past your screeners. The anti-trafficking field has yet to be presented with a meaningful solution of how you intend to guarantee that no children are being sexually exploited on your site. As a result, we ask that you take down the Adult or Erotic sections, wherever they appear on Craigslist.
Another important reality for you to realize is that law enforcement does not currently have the resources to review and conduct an investigation of every single Adult or Erotic Services ad on your site. The sheer volume of ads outpaces law enforcement's ability to respond to each one. Consequently, maintaining the Erotic Services sections in other countries enables the majority of Erotic ads to thrive without a law enforcement deterrent. Cooperating with law enforcement when a rare case is brought is a short-term solution, not reflective of an overall systemic analysis of the crime problem that you are enabling.
You have asserted that removing the Adult or Erotic Services sections will not entirely eliminate the presence of sex ads on your site. This may be true, but eliminating the centralized thoroughfares of each designated "Erotic Services" section seriously disrupts pimps and johns who buy and sell women and children on Craigslist. Closing this section of Craigslist across the globe will send a clear signal to sexual predators that you will not stand for them using the site to sexually exploit children and women.
You argue that there are other online sites that advertise sex ads. Yes, the signers of this letter are aware of other sites with adult ads, and we are working to address those sites as well. But frankly, the user volume and name recognition of those sites pales in comparison to yours. They are not a household name like Craigslist.
We collectively feel that if you are seriously committed to ending the site’s use as a platform for sex trafficking of women and children, you will apply the same approach you recently took in the United States and immediately close the remaining Erotic sections around the world.
If you continue to keep the Erotic sections outside of the United States, we ask that you at least be honest and more specific about the reasons why you are keeping them. After receiving this letter, please do not claim that it is because anti-trafficking “experts” agree with you and wholly support your approach.
In closing, we note that in one of Jim Buckmaster’s recent letters, he asked the question: “Would it not be a step backward to confine adult ads to venues that don't cooperate with law enforcement, that don't care what advocacy groups and nonprofits have to say?”
This statement seems to indicate that Craigslist does care what advocacy groups and nonprofits have to say, more than other venues. If this is true, then you must care about this letter. Please hear what we have to say, read the signers of this letter, and recognize that the anti-trafficking field is standing with solidarity and unity, and collectively asking you to take down all the Adult and Erotic sections worldwide, completely and permanently.
SIGNED:
Bradley Myles
Executive Director & CEO
Polaris Project
Malika Saada Saar
Executive Director & Founder
The Rebecca Project for Human Rights
Eliza Reock
Executive Director
Harold & Kayrita Anderson Family Foundation
Carol Smolenski
Executive Director & Co-Founder
ECPAT-USA
Linda Smith (U.S. Congress 1994-98)
Founder & President
Shared Hope International
Kaffie McCullough
Campaign Director
A Future. Not A Past.
Jennifer & Peter Buffett
Co-Chairs
NoVo Foundation
Lisa L. Thompson
Liaison for the Abolition of Sexual Trafficking
The Salvation Army – National Headquarters, USA
Suzanne Koepplinger
Executive Director
Minnesota Indian Women’s Resource Center (MIWRC)
Lee Rope-Batker
President & Chief Executive Officer
Women’s Foundation of Minnesota
Vednita Carter
Executive Director & Founder
Breaking Free
Andrea Powell
Executive Director & Co-Founder
FAIR Fund
Norma Ramos, Esq.
Executive Director
Coalition Against Trafficking in Women (CATW)
Kevin Bales
President & Co-founder
Free the Slaves
Rachel Lloyd
Founder & Executive Director
Girls Educational & Mentoring Services (GEMS)
Laura J. Lederer
President
Global Centurion
William Livermore
Executive Director
Somaly Mam Foundation
Maria A. Trujillo
Executive Director
Houston Rescue & Restore Coalition
Sonia Ossorio
Executive Director
National Organization for Women, New York City Chapter (NOW-NYC)
Amb. Mark P. Lagon
International Relations Chair
Georgetown University MSFS Program
Tina Frundt
Executive Director & Founder
Courtney’s House
Michele Garnett McKenzie
Director of Advocacy
The Advocates for Human Rights
Rachel Durchslag
Executive Director
Chicago Alliance Against Sexual Exploitation (CAASE)
Marisa Ugarte
Executive Director
Bilateral Safety Corridor Coalition (BSCC)
Lisa Goldblatt Grace
Program Director
My Life, My Choice
Frank Massolini
Director
PROMISE Program
The Salvation Army
Laura Penny
Executive Director
Women’s Foundation of Southern Arizona
Frank N. Barnaba
Founder & President
The Barnaba Institute
Debi M. Harris
Chief Executive Officer
Women’s Fund of Miami-Dade
Carol B. Penick
Executive Director
Women’s Fund of Mississippi
Dorchen A. Leidholdt
Director, Center for Battered Women’s Legal Services
Sanctuary for Families
Elaine Maly
Executive Director
Women’s Fund of Greater Milwaukee
Central Ohio Rescue & Restore Coalition
Cassondra Johnson Blackbird
Executive Director
Sexual Assault Program of Beltrami, Cass & Hubbard Counties
Chris Newlin
Executive Director
National Children’s Advocacy Center
Heather Arnet
Chief Executive Officer
Women & Girls Foundation of Southwest Pennsylvania
Donna M. Hughes
Professor & Carlson Endowed Chair
Women’s Studies Program
University of Rhode Island
Sharon Simpson-Joseph
Executive Director
Juvenile Justice Fund
Marissa Castellanos
Human Trafficking Project Manager
Catholic Charities of Louisville
Michelle Miller
Executive Director
Resist Exploitation, Embrace Dignity (REED)
Ronna L. Bright
Project Coordinator
Central Valley Against Human Trafficking & Central Valley Freedom Coalition
Tania DoCarmo
Director & Vice President
Chab Dai USA
Helen Sworn
Director & Founder
Chab Dai Coalition
Kristy Childs
Executive Director & Founder
Veronica’s Voice
Mark & Keisha Hoerner
Ethical Living, Inc.
Sara K. Gould
President & CEO
Ms. Foundation for Women
Diana Mao
President
NOMI Network
Melanie Shapiro
Co-Founder
Citizens Against Trafficking
Mary Frances Bowley
President
Wellspring Living, Inc.
Jennifer Mitchell
Assistant Director PROMISE Program
The Salvation Army
Anne Lee
President & CEO
Darkness to Light
Daria Mueller
Policy Specialist
Prostitution Alternatives Round Table (PART) of the Chicago Coalition for the Homeless
Glenda L. McClendon
Office Manager
PACE Center for Girls, Inc.
Barbara Mosacchio
Chief Executive Officer
Atlanta Women’s Foundation
Gordon Heller
Chair, Steering Committee
Dayton Southeast Weed & Seed Project
Dr. Daniel Bercu
President
Doctors at War on Trafficking in Persons
Colette Bercu
Director
Free for Life International
Carol Arthur
Executive Director
Domestic Abuse Project
Marcia Coné
Executive Director
Women’s Fund of Rhode Island
Kara Fagan
Director
The Women’s Fund of Great Chattanooga
Nicola Goren
President
Washington Area Women’s Foundation
Charlotte Boatwright
President
Chattanooga Domestic Violence Coalition
Emily Fitchpatrick
Founder & President
On Eagles Wings Ministries & The Hope House
Pam Strickland
Founder
Eastern North Carolina Stop Human Trafficking Now
Victor Vieth
Director
National Child Protection Training Center (NCPTC)
Madeliene H. Dobbins
Director & Chief Administrative Officer
Delta Research & Educational Foundation
Deborah Sigmund
Founder & Director
Innocents at Risk
Benjamin Nolot
Founder
Exodus Cry
Sidney Ford
Director & Founder
You Are Never Alone (YANA)
Jeff Bauer
Director Public Policy & Civic Engagement
The Family Partnership
Anna Rodriguez
Executive Director & Founder
Florida Coalition Against Human Trafficking
Melissa Gifford
Executive Director & DVTF Team Coordinator
Four Points, Inc.
Kathryn Xian
Non-Executive Director & Founder
Girl Fest Hawaii
Stephanie Davis
Executive Director
Georgia Women for Change, Inc.
Stacia Freeman
Executive Director
The Home Foundation
Erik Voss
Executive Director
The International Center of Atlanta
Sandra J. Robinson
Program Coordinator
Western Kentucky Refugee Mutual Assistance
The International Center of Bowling & Owensboro
Danelle Ragoonanan-Storph
Director
Project Rescue & Assist New Americans
International Institute of Connecticut, Inc.
Kathy Maskell
US Prevention Advisor
Love146
End Internet Trafficking Coalition
Marie Morin
Eastern Regional Director
Long Island Task Force
Love146
The Lucas County Human Trafficking Coalition
Donna Dunn
Executive Director
Minnesota Coalition Against Sexual Assault (MNCASA)
Cyndi Cook
Executive Director
Minnesota Coalition for Battered Women
Claudia Barlow
Chair of the Board
Miramed
Jeannette Pai-Espinosa
President
The National Crittenton Foundation
Veronica Lamb
Outreach Director
Pacific Alliance to Stop Slavery
Sandra L. Hollett
Chief Executive Officer
Partnership for Families, Children & Adults
Dianne Post
Attorney
Phoenix Women Take Back the Night
Kristyn Komarnicki
Editor
PRISM Magazine
Evangelicals for Social Action
Candice Harshner
Executive Director
Program for Aid to Victims of Sexual Assault (PAVSA)
Donna Sabella
Director
Project Phoenix
Trisha Smouse
Anti-Human Trafficking Program Manager
The Salvation Army of Central Ohio
Amy L. Hartman
Diaconal Minister & National Director
Cherish Our Children
Kathie Logan
Program Manager
Sexual Assault Center of NWGA
8th Day Center for Justice
Cordelia Anderson
Co-Director
Sexual Health & Responsibility Program (SHARP)
Renee Morrison
Chairman & Founder
In My Backyard Foundation
Gregory Marx
Director
In My Backyard Foundation
Adeyemi Oshodi
Director of Anti-Trafficking Programs
World Hope International (WHI)
Ann Buwulda
President
Jubilee Campaign USA
Serena Connelly
Co-Founder
Human Rights Initiative of North Texas
Holy Union Sisters
Central Dallas Ministries
Tuesday, September 7, 2010
Conference call tomorrow (9/8) at 11 AM EST on Craigslist and Adult Services Section
UPDATE
MORE: sorry I couldn't make it! (turned out to be one crazy day); will try to post this weekend about the international issue
Delia
P.S. pleased to see the group is giving craigslist the chance to join the good fight (whatever the history, it is most important that things go as well as possible from now on) D.
Delia,
That sounds great. If you would like to listen into the call or ask any questions, I can send you the call in. Otherwise, we would appreciate, very much, the posting.
K
Katherine Miller
Managing Director
Hattaway Communications
m: +1 202 489 2205
s: kmillerdc
e: katherine@hattawaycommunications.com
www.hattawaycommunications.com
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 7, 2010, at 7:53 PM, dperiod wrote:
> Hi Brad and Katherine! Thanks for letting me know... It's just that I'm not quite sure what this is asking from me, if anything. Although I've been blogging about craigslist for quite a while, I am not at all "credentialed press" and do not travel in order to get info about craigslist. Part of it is the fact that I need to preserve my privacy (my blogs would look very different if I thought I'd give up my privacy at some point). I do wish you success and would be glad to post the press release on my blog if you'd like that! Let me know if I can help with anything else... thanks! ~Delia
>
> ----- Original message -----
> Sent: 2010/09/07 17:59:51
> Subject: Re: Conference call tomorrow (9/8) at 11 AM EST on Craigslist and Adult Services Section
>
> I hope that you will be able to join Malika Saada Saar, from the Rebecca Project, and Bradley Myles, from Polaris Project, for a call focused on Craigslist's recent decision to close down the US-based Adult Services section and continuing efforts to encourage Craigslist to take additional steps to address global sex trafficking. Details are below. The statement they released today is also pasted below, for your information.
>
> If you have any questions, please let me know.
>
> Katherine Miller
> Managing Director
> Hattaway Communications
> e: kmiller@hattaway.com
> m: +1 202 489 2205
> s: kmillerdc
> www.hattaway.com
>
>
>
> MEDIA ADVISORY
>
>
>
>
>
> What: Press conference call with:
>
> Bradley Myles, Executive Director, Polaris Project
>
> Malika Saada Saar, Executive Director, Rebecca Project for Human Rights
>
>
>
> About: Sex trafficking on Craigslist
>
> When: Wednesday, Sept. 8, 2010 11:00 AM EST
>
> Dial-in: Credentialed press only. RSVP to acole@hattaway.com for dial-in code.
>
>
> Statement on Craigslist
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For Immediate Release: Contact: Bradley Myles
>
> September 7, 2010 Polaris Project
>
> 202-507-7956
>
>
>
> Anti-Trafficking Experts Call for Craigslist to Close Adult Services Outside the U.S.
>
>
>
>
>
> WASHINGTON — Four leading organizations that work on ending the sex trafficking of children and young women issued the following statement in response to Craigslist’s decision to close its adult service section in the United States:
>
>
>
> “We thank Craig Newmark and Jim Buckmaster for voluntarily closing the adult services section of Craigslist in the United States. As the largest classified ads site to have an adult services section, Craigslist has become a major marketplace for buying and selling sex with children and young women. An FBI investigation found 2,800 ads selling sex with children in the adult services section in 2008 alone. Closing this section of Craigslist sends a clear signal to sexual predators that it will not stand for them using the site to sexually enslave children and young women.”
>
>
>
> “While this is a good first step in the U.S., there are still more than 250 other Craigslist ‘erotic’ pages around the world where children and young women are still being sold for sex through Craigslist. Craigslist is a global company, and it has a global responsibility. It should immediately shut down the ‘erotic’ services sections across the globe.” [In many areas, “adult services” is called “erotic services.”]
>
>
>
> “We hope that closing this section only in the U.S. was not simply a PR move in advance of a Congressional hearing on September 15th on sex trafficking where Craigslist has been called to testify. If Craigslist is seriously committed to ending the site’s use as a platform for sex trafficking and the sexual enslavement of children and young women, it will immediately close the remaining sections around the world.”
>
>
>
> Signed,
>
> Polaris Project, Rebecca Project for Human Rights, FAIR Fund, Courtney’s House
MORE: sorry I couldn't make it! (turned out to be one crazy day); will try to post this weekend about the international issue
Delia
P.S. pleased to see the group is giving craigslist the chance to join the good fight (whatever the history, it is most important that things go as well as possible from now on) D.
Delia,
That sounds great. If you would like to listen into the call or ask any questions, I can send you the call in. Otherwise, we would appreciate, very much, the posting.
K
Katherine Miller
Managing Director
Hattaway Communications
m: +1 202 489 2205
s: kmillerdc
e: katherine@hattawaycommunications.com
www.hattawaycommunications.com
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 7, 2010, at 7:53 PM, dperiod
> Hi Brad and Katherine! Thanks for letting me know... It's just that I'm not quite sure what this is asking from me, if anything. Although I've been blogging about craigslist for quite a while, I am not at all "credentialed press" and do not travel in order to get info about craigslist. Part of it is the fact that I need to preserve my privacy (my blogs would look very different if I thought I'd give up my privacy at some point). I do wish you success and would be glad to post the press release on my blog if you'd like that! Let me know if I can help with anything else... thanks! ~Delia
>
> ----- Original message -----
> Sent: 2010/09/07 17:59:51
> Subject: Re: Conference call tomorrow (9/8) at 11 AM EST on Craigslist and Adult Services Section
>
> I hope that you will be able to join Malika Saada Saar, from the Rebecca Project, and Bradley Myles, from Polaris Project, for a call focused on Craigslist's recent decision to close down the US-based Adult Services section and continuing efforts to encourage Craigslist to take additional steps to address global sex trafficking. Details are below. The statement they released today is also pasted below, for your information.
>
> If you have any questions, please let me know.
>
> Katherine Miller
> Managing Director
> Hattaway Communications
> e: kmiller@hattaway.com
> m: +1 202 489 2205
> s: kmillerdc
> www.hattaway.com
>
>
>
> MEDIA ADVISORY
>
>
>
>
>
> What: Press conference call with:
>
> Bradley Myles, Executive Director, Polaris Project
>
> Malika Saada Saar, Executive Director, Rebecca Project for Human Rights
>
>
>
> About: Sex trafficking on Craigslist
>
> When: Wednesday, Sept. 8, 2010 11:00 AM EST
>
> Dial-in: Credentialed press only. RSVP to acole@hattaway.com for dial-in code.
>
>
> Statement on Craigslist
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For Immediate Release: Contact: Bradley Myles
>
> September 7, 2010 Polaris Project
>
> 202-507-7956
>
>
>
> Anti-Trafficking Experts Call for Craigslist to Close Adult Services Outside the U.S.
>
>
>
>
>
> WASHINGTON — Four leading organizations that work on ending the sex trafficking of children and young women issued the following statement in response to Craigslist’s decision to close its adult service section in the United States:
>
>
>
> “We thank Craig Newmark and Jim Buckmaster for voluntarily closing the adult services section of Craigslist in the United States. As the largest classified ads site to have an adult services section, Craigslist has become a major marketplace for buying and selling sex with children and young women. An FBI investigation found 2,800 ads selling sex with children in the adult services section in 2008 alone. Closing this section of Craigslist sends a clear signal to sexual predators that it will not stand for them using the site to sexually enslave children and young women.”
>
>
>
> “While this is a good first step in the U.S., there are still more than 250 other Craigslist ‘erotic’ pages around the world where children and young women are still being sold for sex through Craigslist. Craigslist is a global company, and it has a global responsibility. It should immediately shut down the ‘erotic’ services sections across the globe.” [In many areas, “adult services” is called “erotic services.”]
>
>
>
> “We hope that closing this section only in the U.S. was not simply a PR move in advance of a Congressional hearing on September 15th on sex trafficking where Craigslist has been called to testify. If Craigslist is seriously committed to ending the site’s use as a platform for sex trafficking and the sexual enslavement of children and young women, it will immediately close the remaining sections around the world.”
>
>
>
> Signed,
>
> Polaris Project, Rebecca Project for Human Rights, FAIR Fund, Courtney’s House
Monday, September 6, 2010
craigslist sycophants are speeding up the changing of the law believed to allow craigslist to worsen all sort of ills
...and no major overhaul would be needed, just to specify what to me appears to be obvious: that if you *know* (or should reasonably know) that things like child trafficking are rampant on your site, you HAVE TO adequately screen in order to get rid of those ads! and that goes for *all* your site... D.
Sunday, September 5, 2010
(craigslist's role in increased prostitution/child trafficking) I just don't get Jeff Jarvis...
MORE: I don't know if I should be surprised... Jeff Jarvis didn't post my comment (comment number 423908): on the one hand, he's never acted coardish towards me in the past (maybe I didn't give him much of a chance, I don't know, just posted lightly on his blog few years back), on the other hand Craig probably leaned on him as usual... D.
http://www.buzzmachine.com/2010/09/05/regulating-sex-and-speech/#comment-423908
re: "The argument has been that craigslist ads are used to serve human sex trafficking. Except craigslist has been openly and consistently helping police in their efforts to arrest traffickers"
Jeff, I'm trying to understand you but I'm having a really hard time...
Just what do you think is the percentage of traffickers that *can* be apprehended? The police has very limited resources...I somehow doubt you don't know that.
How does the minute percentage of those apprehended compare with the increase in such crimes due to the ease of accomplishing the crime with craigslist's help (the most efficient known way to advertise -- 3 times more efficient than places like backpage)?
Providing a very efficient place for initiating prostitution (including trafficking of children) is almost surely dramatically increasing the amount of overall harm. Generally, the harder it is to commit the crime, the less of it actually happens... none of this is rocket science.
Delia
P.S. are the other places just as responsible? absolutely... just for significantly less added harm (perhaps not for lack of trying, they are just nowhere as efficient); as with most harms, the police/government just can't uniformly go after all of them, so the bigger fish are rightly getting the most attention (craigslist's feedback forum used to tell craigslisters who were complaining that their ad got removed while others also in violation remained on the site that if you are speeding you should expect a ticket even if not everybody gets a ticket -- it's funny how they forget when they are the ones speeding three times faster than anybody else around). D.
http://www.buzzmachine.com/2010/09/05/regulating-sex-and-speech/#comment-423908
re: "The argument has been that craigslist ads are used to serve human sex trafficking. Except craigslist has been openly and consistently helping police in their efforts to arrest traffickers"
Jeff, I'm trying to understand you but I'm having a really hard time...
Just what do you think is the percentage of traffickers that *can* be apprehended? The police has very limited resources...I somehow doubt you don't know that.
How does the minute percentage of those apprehended compare with the increase in such crimes due to the ease of accomplishing the crime with craigslist's help (the most efficient known way to advertise -- 3 times more efficient than places like backpage)?
Providing a very efficient place for initiating prostitution (including trafficking of children) is almost surely dramatically increasing the amount of overall harm. Generally, the harder it is to commit the crime, the less of it actually happens... none of this is rocket science.
Delia
P.S. are the other places just as responsible? absolutely... just for significantly less added harm (perhaps not for lack of trying, they are just nowhere as efficient); as with most harms, the police/government just can't uniformly go after all of them, so the bigger fish are rightly getting the most attention (craigslist's feedback forum used to tell craigslisters who were complaining that their ad got removed while others also in violation remained on the site that if you are speeding you should expect a ticket even if not everybody gets a ticket -- it's funny how they forget when they are the ones speeding three times faster than anybody else around). D.
Friday, September 3, 2010
unlisted craigslist erotic/adult services review forum???
MORE: Anderson Cooper didn't care to "sit down with Craig/Jim" (left Amber Lyons finish the reporting on the evening of September 6th); did they think he was going to jump to "the honor" or... something else?; there were some articles suggesting Craig/Jim were looking for a way to meet Anderson *socially*... ("for coffee")... Anderson is believed to be gay but, unlike Craig, he gives no reason for making his sexuality known (no publicly known girlfriend or the like); on the other hand, posts claiming Craig is gay still frequently appear on craigslist...
the latest: http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/rnr/1881490918.html
...
didn't know it existed! (link of http://www.forumslister.com/)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/forums/?forumID=6996
I guess nothing should surprise...(certainly looks like good evidence for aiding & abetting -- let me know what you think! it is moderated, certain posts have been deleted by staff showing they KNOW what's going on in there; you can find explicit discussions and suggestions of particular "providers" and there is enough detail to see what the "services" are (e.g.); there used to be posted pictures, one poster says...)
thanks to slinkybender!: "They have, in fact, explicitly created "secret" discussion forums for johns on their website -- unadvertised locations set aside from among the 10,000 possible forums available on their servers -- and those forums have been highly active for years."
Delia
P.S. if you have time, listen to the short Jim Buckmaster video (just to see how much wholesomeness he is trying to project) and read the Guardian article where he says they make sure all ads are ok and the comments (two from craigslist users are excellent):
"You've agreed to do more screening of ads. Is that going to change the way you run?
JB: In this one category, we are manually screening each ad to ensure that it's fully compliant before it reaches the site. We're not counting the cost there and we're staffing that function as appropriate and as needed to ensure that every ad is fully screened."
No wonder they are pissed with Amber Lyons...and are trying to get someoneELSE to talk to...
the latest: http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/rnr/1881490918.html
...
didn't know it existed! (link of http://www.forumslister.com/)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/forums/?forumID=6996
I guess nothing should surprise...(certainly looks like good evidence for aiding & abetting -- let me know what you think! it is moderated, certain posts have been deleted by staff showing they KNOW what's going on in there; you can find explicit discussions and suggestions of particular "providers" and there is enough detail to see what the "services" are (e.g.); there used to be posted pictures, one poster says...)
thanks to slinkybender!: "They have, in fact, explicitly created "secret" discussion forums for johns on their website -- unadvertised locations set aside from among the 10,000 possible forums available on their servers -- and those forums have been highly active for years."
Delia
P.S. if you have time, listen to the short Jim Buckmaster video (just to see how much wholesomeness he is trying to project) and read the Guardian article where he says they make sure all ads are ok and the comments (two from craigslist users are excellent):
"You've agreed to do more screening of ads. Is that going to change the way you run?
JB: In this one category, we are manually screening each ad to ensure that it's fully compliant before it reaches the site. We're not counting the cost there and we're staffing that function as appropriate and as needed to ensure that every ad is fully screened."
No wonder they are pissed with Amber Lyons...and are trying to get someoneELSE to talk to...
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