sources of profit and such

sorry, Frank -- I don't think I'll ever change my mind. Let me know if you need more info. (I could track down the sources for recent estimates etc.) ~Delia

----- Original message -----
Sent: 2009/04/29 00:51:32
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: Re: Radio Appearance tonight

Yeah. We’ve been talking about it on the radio a lot. We’d love to have you on sometime, if you ever reconsider.

---

From: dperiod [mailto:dperiod@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:38 AM
To: Frank Morano
Subject: Re: RE: RE: Re: Radio Appearance t

Hi again, Frank! quietly expanding the pay list for jobs and charging for apartment listings in New York City (for now...) . Lowest recent estimate for the year was 80 mill or so; are you just curious or you need sources and such? D.

----- Original message -----
Sent: 2009/04/28 23:58:15
Subject: Re: RE: RE: Re: Radio Appearance tonight

Where do they make money from? Are there any estimates of what they actually make?

"does [craigslist] promote prostitution and endanger the safety of its users?"

Twitter: answered Frank Morano's questions (http://tiny.cc/cvlqF) ~Delia21 minutes ago from web

MORE:

thanks! it's up to you if you want to mention it or not -- I'm just glad I could help. you are welcome! D.

----- Original message -----

Sent: 2009/04/24 22:02:07
Subject: Re: RE: RE: Re: Radio Appearance tonight

This is great. Do you want us to mention your website on the air or the fact that you provided this info. Let me know if you chang your mind about coming on the air.

Thanks again.

Frank

STILL MORE:

You are welcome! Here is how I see it:

1). What's wrong with Craigslist?

while claiming to be "non-commercial," appears to be a cash cow (estimated huge annual profits and apparently extremely limited expenses most evident in nowhere adequate customer service -- ridiculously low number of employees given user base -- and site development -- hopelessly antiquated)

2) Does Craigslist turn a blind eye to illegal activities like prostitution?

it certainly looks like it... by all indication it self handicaps itself by refusing to allocate reasonable resources (given their profits) to combating the problem and refusing to at least modify its "erotic services" (the name itself makes posters believe the category is intended for prostitution! no such thing as legal "erotic service" -- massages and legal escorts are non-sexual)

3) What could they and what should they be doing differently to police this type of activity?

I don't think "policing" is the right word here -- they need to spend adequate resources (*given their profits*) to address the problem -- this may well be a legal question clarified by one of the ongoing law suits (how much should they be spending on this, given their profits?) nobody could reasonably ask them to go bankrupt doing this... -- these problems can never be *completely* eradicated -- but in the same time craigslist should not be allowed to spend close to nothing and walk away with huge profits every year...

4) How dangerous is it to meet someone on craigslist, be it a prostitute or just a regular date?

the risk appears to go up sharply as time passes -- you hear more and more complaints even for regular dates -- , due at least in part to craigslist's refusing to really address the problems (basically just saying they are sorry about what happened but vowing not to change)

5) If you do meet someone on craigslist, what steps should you take to guarantee your safety?

You can never guarantee your safety. However, craigslist could do a lot to help people screen out obviously dubious people; e.g. provide links to sex offenders' list, known criminals etc. I am pretty sure that much more sophisticated ways of fighting crime on the site exist or can be developed. However, it would take significant resources that craigslist apparently has but it not willing to dedicate to addressing these problems.

6) How could the recent series of craigslist murders have been avoided?

I don't believe they could have *absolutely* been avoided. I do believe crime in general would be significantly reduced on craigslist if they allocated reasonable resources to fighting it and that decisions made today determine to a large extent the magnitude of tomorrow's crimes.

Delia

P.S. let me know if you need me to clarify anything or you want me to answer anything else! D.


---- Original message -----
Sent: 2009/04/24 20:41:45
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Radio Appearance tonight

Okay thanks very much. Here are a few questions, but please feel free to throw in anything else you'd like to.


1) What's wrong with Craigslist?
2) Does Craigslist turn a blind eye to illegal activities like prostitution?
3) What could they and what should they be doing differently to police this type of activity?
4) How dangerous is it to meet someone on craigslist, be it a prostitute or just a regular date?
5) If you do meet someone on craigslist, what steps should you take to guarantee your safety?
6) How could the recent series of craigslist murders have been avoided?
....

MORE: Twitter: "does [craigslist] promote prostitution and endanger the safety of its users?" WABC Radio with Curtis Sliwa invitation: http://tiny.cc/cvlqF4 minutes ago from web
....
Sorry, I can't... but feel free to ask me anything you'd like! I'd do my best to explain my opinions and address whatever questions there might be. Whether you choose to use it on your show (now or later) or not doesn't really matter to me... I'd be glad to help in any way I can, I just can't be on the show.

Delia

----- Original message -----
Sent: 2009/04/24 19:50:44
Subject: Re: Re: Radio Appearance tonight

Sure. You can post whatever you'd like. Would you be willing to come on with assumed name? I appreciate the offer of reading your posts, but on radio it just works so much better if there's someone on to explain it and maybe take calls.

---

From: dperiod
To: Frank Morano
Sent: Fri Apr 24 16:43:49 2009
Subject: Re: Radio Appearance tonight


Hi, Frank!

I do appreciate your interest but I value my privacy a lot! So an appearance on any radio show is not my choice...

I'd be glad to post my opinions on my craigslist criticism blog (like I have done for a long time) and you have my permission to use the info any way you'd like.

I could just go ahead and answer your question "does [craigslist] promote prostitution and endanger the safety of its users?" in a new entry on my blog. If you'd like to refine the question or ask further questions after I get the initial response posted, just let me know.

Delia

P.S. could I post your email/emails on my blog? thanks! D.


----- Original message -----
Sent: 2009/04/24 19:05:53
Subject: Re: Radio Appearance tonight

Hello,

I produce Curtis Sliwa’s nationally syndicated show and we were wondering if you’d like to come on with Curtis at 11:30 PM EST tonight to discuss craigslist. Does it promote prostitution and endanger the safety of its users? It would be by phone and last about ten minutes.



Thanks,

Frank



Frank Morano
Executive Producer

WABC Radio
(212) 268-5730

(212) 613-3849
frank.morano@citcomm.com (Please note new e-mail address)
2 Penn Plaza, 17th Fl
New York, NY 10121

would valid craigslist criticism stop if craigslist would disclose their financials to the public?

MORE:

Dear dperiod:

BTW, if you think this is bad enough, consider that there are much bigger
companies reducing the quality of their customer service to cut costs to
increase their profit.

And these big companies have shareholders putting pressure on them to "meet
the numbers". That is why the "short-termism" of Wall Street is a bad thing.

Yuhong Bao

@yuhong2"non-commercial" poseurs secretly cleaning up huge profits (like craigslist appears to do) are much worse than up front for profits1 minute ago from web in reply to yuhong2

STILL MORE:

@craigscriticism FYI - link is broken on your twitter page - re: forums - i'll check it out, but I would like 2 hear what u want out of CL11:50 PM Apr 9th from web in reply to craigscriticism
@allofcraigs honesty and transparency would go a long way: stop redacting basic info re:craigslist in legal complaints, disclose profits etc6:54 AM Apr 10th from web in reply to allofcraigs
@craigscriticism cant fault u 4 wanting more from CL - but it's a free service & u get what u pay 4 - i would love 2 know how much CL makes11:22 AM Apr 10th from web in reply to craigscriticism
@allofcraigs you may well get your wish:): I'd keep my eyes open on the law suits -- it's probably just a matter of time until we'll know...6:33 AM Apr 11th from web in reply to allofcraigs
@craigscriticism well, my eyes & ears are wide open. I'm nosey, that's why I created my website ;-) Keep me up 2 speed on any dirt.9:43 AM Apr 11th from web in reply to craigscriticism
@allofcraigs can't promise... (been quitting more times that I care to remember -I want to see the truth but wish someone else did the work)5:03 PM Apr 12th from web in reply to allofcraigs

EVEN MORE:

@craigscriticism craigslist can't police billions of posts - who's to blame? look into mirror, it's called accountability. bad apples
@allofcraigs do you really think 26 employees (that's *everyone* including Craig) is ALL the resources they should allocate to serving CL? D9:24 PM Apr 9th from web in reply to allofcraigs

@craigscriticism Keep in mind that I don't think that there are many for-profit public companies that disclose their profits.8:44 PM Apr 9th from web
@yuhong2 I'm not aware of any other for profit that has made anywhere in the range of claims craigslist has made and so greatly benefited $$9:29 PM Apr 9th from web in reply to yuhong2

@craigscriticism craigslist can't police billions of posts - who's to blame? look into mirror, it's called accountability. bad apples5:16 PM Apr 9th from web in reply to craigscriticism
@allofcraigs and I got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn:); the needs of the community are not met--hang out in the feedback&help forums & see9:54 PM Apr 9th from web in reply to allofcraigs

@craigscriticism On #3, that is not the question I was asking, I am asking if *List Foundation* *legally* incorporated as a non-profit.9:59 PM Apr 9th from web
@yuhong2 SFGate, for instance, reported on their bash celebrating the non-profit status (http://tinyurl.com/cwc7qx) -- is it real proof? no.10:16 PM Apr 9th from web in reply to yuhong2

@craigscriticism On #2, my point was I doubt people would really care that much about whether it was a for-profit or a non-profit.9:59 PM Apr 9th from web
@yuhong2 as long as they backed up their claims... (evidence is strong that they are NOT doing that thus the need for volunteer disclosure)10:23 PM Apr 9th from web in reply to yuhong2


...
MORE:

#1 would valid craigslist criticism stop if the for profit craigslist would voluntarily disclose their financial information to the public? I seriously doubt it... I believe people would be appaulled to see what's really going on...and that's why craigslist/ Craig Newmark & Jim Buckmaster go to ridiculous length to keep even basic things secret (see the heavy redaction of ebay's complaint against craigslist, for instance)

#2 the difference between for-profits and non-profits: if craigslist would be a non-profit, nobody could profit from it (making out with humongous profits for years, as it appears...): whatever amount would exceed their legitimate expenses (which include normal salaries and benefits for all employees including Craig & Jim) would *have to* be used towards advancing the mission! and they would have the legal obligation to disclose what's really going on -- their financial situation -- ; by all indication, there is no reason for the severe under staffing (26 employees for a huge number of users! -- that's ALL the craigslist community gets, after having built craigslist to where it is today...) and antiquated under development of the site... the rest of the resources available appear to be pocketed...

#3 was List Foundation a non-profit? : if it wasn't, Craig certainly made it sound like it and people believed it! from the users, to volunteers, to sponsors, to the media... (I do believe this should constitute evidence for fraud)

Delia

....
I think you do have a point. Disclosing the profit craigslist makes would have reduced the criticism
considerably. After all, there are many other possible reasons why some companies have
poor customer service.

Yuhong Bao

@yuhong2 thanks for the email, Yu! is it ok to post it on my blog like I did with Eve Batey's of sfappeal? (re: http://tiny.cc/7arxd) Deliaabout 19 hours ago from web in reply to yuhong2
@craigscriticism Yes. Ignore the last question I asked in my email about peopleslist because that was written before I read all the posts.about 19 hours ago from web in reply to craigscriticism
@craigscriticism: Why are you obessed with the difference between for-profits and not-for-profits? I think it is just a legal technicality.about 19 hours ago from web
@craigscriticism: Actually I think the difference is that non-profits survive on donations. Correct me if I am wrong.about 18 hours ago from web

@craigscriticism: Do you have any proof List Foundation actually incorporated as a non-profit or was it just another name for craigslist?about 17 hours ago from web
@yuhong2 Yu,140 characters is very limiting. lets have this discussion on my blog, ok? I'll try to post that entry this afternoon EST ~Deliaabout 10 hours ago from web in reply to yuhong2