Moshe's List: can the craigslist trick be pulled *twice*?

it would be a sad reflection on humanity...

Yonatan Shirokov, aka. Moshe, via The Jewish Advocate Online; 2nd paragraph, 20th line : “This is a non-commercial project, and I’m not in it for money" (as long as we don't make any...--> my take on it)--> now where did we hear this before?...

Delia

P.S. and the name for his acknowledged Craig "inspired" I-just-want-to-help-out...? gojews.com! [my emphasis]

P.P.S. interesting twist: he is asking for donations... (top of main page),while in the same time soliciting investors... (under the Privacy Policy??? third sentance) --> I would think this spells out the ultimate goal provided people read the Privacy Policy...

Much less smooth than Craig... although they both made the "dot com" give away of intention mistake, as far as I can tell... Craig appears to have realised that and is redirecting the trafic from craigslist.com to craigslist.org (which appears to have remained an unregulated denomination -- who knew it would stay this way for over a decade?) D.

yahoo wizens up...

if I may say so myself:)

Delia

P.S. they got my blog back in the top position (and moved down the craigslist half-truth) D.

insights into craigslist...

Hi, Greg!

I think you'd get a much better insight into craigslist if you wait a little until The Arizona Republic is going to have to PAY Craig for that ad... and an even better idea when the initial "reasonable fee" will start creeping up (the number of places where craigslist charges for posting jobs has increased dramatically and gives no sign of easing up...)

Delia

P.S. take care! D.

(prostitution) so much for the claim that craigslist makes it easier for cops...

Robert James, Dekalb County Solicitor, GA: "On the actual street corner one officer can make dozens of arrests, on the virtual street corner it may take 10 to 15 or 24 or 48 man hours to make one arrest" (second half of the video) D.

Thanks, Google! :)

MORE

(looks like they got that comment re: "craigslist criticism" on Craig's blog much higher on the list of top hits, as I think it should be.... -- it's currently lower than only two hits: my blog, and a link on The New York Time site Eileen helped with...)

Delia

P.S. and no, I haven't done anything to cause that... (aside from mentioning it on this blog)

P.P.S. looks like yahoo kept the old, flawed, order... D.

same old, same old...

the one good thing about this podcast is that he calls Eileen, "my girlfriend" (not "the gf") -- she deserves at least that much respect -- , otherwise... same old, same old... -- if you've been following this blog you can probably spot all the tricks by now: vagueness, ambiguity, leading into confusing traps etc.

Delia

P.S. disappointed with the Berkeley audience: a couple of decent questions but they appear to have eaten up his BS answers... (poor framing and weak follow-ups) D.

journalists digging for answers...

ENEN MORE: ok... looks like it's posted now (Nov 6th) ... and... surprise, surprise...(or not) a comment from Craig asking her to call/email? (looks like damage control, again, since the article is somewhat critical of Craig -- looks like she's cought on what looks to me like Craig's evasiveness: "the way to overcome that is to keep asking for examples and dig deeper into what he is saying, but that didn't seem to be working as well for me as it sometimes does"; end of 9th paragraph --> sould have given Heather credit for noticind this and saying it...) D.

I hope she doesn't fall in his trap like so many others have done before: sure she needs to talk to him but she also needs to try to be objective about what she's writing... so setting things aside and doing some independent research is absolutely necesary -- I hope she does it! D.

MORE: well, I don't know what's up with Heather... she either has no comments or she has one! here's what I see when I click on that link (I'm not sure if it's the same if others do it, if you just go to that entry it says no comment but my comment, number 57, must be there somewhere since it posts when I click on the link)

http://heathervale.com/blog/2007/10/30/digging-for-answers-without-a-shovel/#comment-57)...

fine with me if she's got it hidden or something... hopefully she's got the message...

re:
No Comments on Digging For Answers Without A Shovel »

October 31, 2007
Delia @ 8:53 am:

Hi, Heather!

I think it’s great that you are out digging for answers! — that’s what journalists are *supposed* to do…(and you certainly appear to have the credentials)

I would just suggest that you set aside what Craig (or any other interviewee) says and really look into those things…

e.g. “According to Craig in the interview, the community doesn’t care about fancy graphics or features, they just want it to do what it does” –> I’d look into this… feedback forum — it has a search function –is a good place to start: what has the community asked for and for how long? (more than a rudimentary search function is one of the obvious candidates)

Delia

P.S. good luck with everything and take care! D.

.....
Hi, Heather!

I think it's great that you are out digging for answers! -- that’s what journalists are *supposed* to do...(and you certainly appear to have the credentials)

I would just suggest that you set aside what Craig (or any other interviewee) says and really look into those things...

e.g. "According to Craig in the interview, the community doesn’t care about fancy graphics or features, they just want it to do what it does" --> I'd look into this... feedback forum -- it has a search function --is a good place to start: what has the community asked for and for how long? (more than a rudimentary search function is one of the obvious candidates)

Delia

P.S. good luck with everything and take care! D.

(prostitution) craigslist "helping out"...

MORE: College Call Girl, The Price (4th paragraph) : "I want to be very clear that I recommend this lifestyle for no one. It is easy enough to cross the line because the line is invisible. Much harder still to go back, to return to a time when you shared no piece of yourself with strange men, men you don’t like, even men who don’t like you. I detached myself completely from the work I was doing and felt that I was getting off scot-free with minimal psychological impact. I was having fun at first; I felt beautiful and confident and adored and I was financially secure for the first time ever. But those nights found their way underneath my skin. They just burrowed down deep under the folds of my subconscious like a rat nestled at the bottom of a shopping bag."
.....
Jossip: "Would you have gotten into prostitution without Craigslist?"
College Call Girl: No chance
(2nd question)

alright... I'm back!

here's some commentary D.

*paying* customers are also ignored...

they wonder why... (could it be because craigslist only really cares about taking their money?) D.

another disappointing podcast...

David Weinberger: "so... I have some questions" (Oh...great! except he doesn't have any real questions... he just seems to be enjoying himself buttering Craig up like so many others have done before him... what a shame -- give that microphone to somebody who knows what it's for, will you?) D.

craigslist gives away around 1% of revenue? ooh, my...

MORE: this means that how much craigslist contributs to the foundation (I'm assuming this is public info given that Ryan seems to have been able to get it) is good info to have...-- multiplying it by 100 should give a good idea of current revenues
........................
how generous for an organization that was supposed to be a non-profit!

Jim:" We give away at least 1% of revenue"
(2nd page, 2nd question)

again... take a look at what Ryan said about it in his "craig$list.com" article in the SFWeekly...

That "category" allows Newmark to keep the domain Craigslist.org, a name that gives the false impression that the site is a nonprofit, by using ".org," an extension almost exclusively used by nonprofit companies and foundations. Craigslist's marketing materials call this "a symbol of our service mission and non-corporate culture." Craigslist.com, which the company also owns, draws far less traffic.) It permits Newmark to use the word "non-commercial" twice on Craigslist's "Mission and History" page, and to bury the phrase "No charges, except for job postings" in the third line from the bottom. It means establishing a separate nonprofit, the Craigslist Foundation, which trains other nonprofits in marketing, technology, and fundraising skills, but makes no grants, has no endowment, and charges for many of its training events. This year, Craigslist will provide less than half of the foundation's $240,000 budget.
(forth page, fifth paragraph from bottom)

Delia

P.S. Jim appears to be talking about the craigslist foundation

Craig's little helpers...

notice how Jeniffer misconstrues the question from the audience and thus helps Craig (the question simply asked what was he doing with all that money... aka the huge net profits) :

question:" you’re on track to make $55 million in revenues, you have 23 employees, what are you doing with all that money?" (last paragraph)

Jeniffer's misconstruction:

"Asked what he was doing with the riches he had earned [my emphasis]"
(third paragraph from the bottom)

this conveys a very different idea to the reader... (much more favorable to Craig)

Delia

(ownership of craigslist) Go Wikipedia, go!

UPDATE

"Who own's Craiglist? Craig? The article doesn't say. Sylvain1972 20:23, 20 March 2007 (UTC)"
they are finally getting to the real issues! and yes, there is publicly available information on this (things Craig has said about it in the past) -- if Wikipedia pursues this, they deserve a big pat on the back! I hope you'll look into this, but I'll also try to track things down myself (I kind of know what I will find but I want to be able to quote) when the move whirl is over (1 to 2 weeks from now, you may want to check for an update to this entry). D.

what's Craig *really* up to?

Well... I don't think we have enough info at this point to know what's Craig *really* up to... For one thing, we NEED to know how much he is and has been *profiting* from craigslist... (as the owner of a sizable chunk of it) and how does it all play out in the long run (what may *look* like not maximizing income at this time may well be an illusion that will be dispelled in time since it appears that the long term picture is very different).

As to "giving extensively to charity," again... we NEED to know how much he *profits* and has been profiting from craigslist... and how much he gives (I'm not aware of substantial donations, given his estimated *profits* -- I'm NOT talking *salary*, that's just a red herring...).

Delia

P.S. I might have been impressed with Craig if he would have been for real, if he would have either kept craigslist a non-profit (and used the profits to pay for things like customer service and improvements, instead of pocketing them while in the same time talking the grand talk... which seems to be what's going on) or at least voluntarily disclosed his profits so people could see what he's made of... The fact that he doesn't do that makes me think he's full of hot air... (probably much more so than Larry Ellison and pretty much all those who were upfront about wanting to make money).

P.P.S. Oh... and he no longer drives a Saturn (not that it matters much...) D.

what free speech?

I think there is more to the topic... purging criticism by craigslisters, for instance, or doing away with inconvenient info seem to be flying in the face of free speech claims... D.

(more) dust in your eyes: Craig's finances

"I pay myself enough to buy the gadgets I want... " (15:19 minutes into the Q&A)

notice how he insinuates he's just a regular Joe making do on his salary...

another one of Craig's interviews goes missing...

MORE: looks like they found it! (these guys better start asking some real questions! or I'm going to have to stop listening to these podcasts ... they are getting excruciatingly boring... I have my limits...)

UPDATE: According to Trulia, the interview stopped suddenly because "some poor kid tripped on the power cord in the middle of recording..." (still, whatever was recorded is not available)

description (a search for Trulia on Technorati) :

"Craig Newmark talks to us live at the Inman Real Estate Connect conference in NYC about what’s up with Craigslist these days. Craig discusses why they started charging for rental ads in New York, how he fights spam listings and what his day-to-day is like as “Chief Customer Service Rep”.

Delia

P.S. I haven't said a word... (I swear...) D.

(more comments on) New York Times article

MORE: perhaps he is not strange at all...

Hi sf!

he may not be strange at all... (when the dust is all settled, the only strange thing may be that so many people, that otherwise appear to have decent analytical skills, bought the pitch without a question...)

Delia

P.S. as in science, *usually* the simplest explanation ends-up being the truth -- perhaps he is not strange at all...

Sorry, Val, I don't believe that to be the truth :)...

re: "The truth is what you believe the truth is… "

just how "decent" a living Craig& Jim have been making off of craigslist for years can only be know if and when they disclose their profits... and as I already said, I believe that (from the ethical stand point) they should have voluntarily done that all along

you told me (on my craigslist criticism blog) that you agree there are some moral issues, so let's set those aside then... BTW, (if you haven't noticed) I posted an answer to your comment on my blog.
(http://craigslistcriticism.blogspot.com/2007/01/2007-bonus-craigslists-achilles-heel.html)

re:" I’d rather have the Craigliust free of commercials and no improvements"

if the money is there (and it certainly appears to be) one doesn't have anything to do with the other...

certain "improvements" (like hiring an adequate number of customer service people, for instance) would make *their* life (not only that of the users) much easier and *safer* (as you've read on my blog, I believe they are asking for trouble in the form of special interest group law suits)...

the fact that they don't do that (hire an adequate number of customer service people) makes me question their motives ... yes, Craig would tell you he wants to stay small for reasons other then having the "savings" go straight into his pocket... (I choose to believe him when he shows us the books...)

re: "I remember Craig saying ones that he is interested in ‘free’ media or maybe he and Jim are one of the last dinosaurs that don’t want to be leashed…. You chose your truth…

yeah, Craig& Jim have been saying a lot of things... although I doubt either of them ever referred to themselves as "dinosaurs that don't want to be leashed": that was very likely the "helpful media" that instead of doing their research and asking real questions prefers to write fiction...

as to why the media is doing this... not quite sure, but... it certainly seems to sell!

no wonder plenty of people, just like yourself, feel that they are put in the position to "chose their truth," as you say...

Delia

P.S. Nice talking to you, Val, and take care! D.